Police getting tougher on speed tolerance

[MarkH]

Most deaths are caused by human error, or extreme behaviour. It's hard to educate, engineer or enforce for those things, as nobody ever thinks they are the problem, so nobody ever thinks they need to change.

Yep, I totally agree. But most tickets are not for human error or extreme behaviour. And when someone does something wrong and that causes death or serious injury, so often the courts let them off lightly.

[jellywrestler]

Yep, I totally agree. But most tickets are not for human error or extreme behaviour. And when someone does something wrong and that causes death or serious injury, so often the courts let them off lightly.

this is interesting, she had her car there and drunk enough to be over four times the limit, then got in it and drove, yet is still a victim.
then she was so pissed she doesn't even remember the kicking the cop.
Someone who has taken their car, and still hooked into it is not a victim, they're a problem.



https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/young-...Dy2tXVsH4HXz5E

[pete376403]

this is interesting, she had her car there and drunk enough to be over four times the limit, then got in it and drove, yet is still a victim.
then she was so pissed she doesn't even remember the licking the cop.
Someone who has taken their car, and still hooked into it is not a victim, they're a problem.



https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/young-...Dy2tXVsH4HXz5E

While details are suppressed, there is enough info ( eg "working towards a masters degree" (I surmise in Law), "mongrel mob father") to suggest that, to the courts, some are more equal than others. To be sure there is no way I (MWM) would get this leniency.

[Reckless]

this is interesting, she had her car there and drunk enough to be over four times the limit, then got in it and drove, yet is still a victim.
then she was so pissed she doesn't even remember the licking the cop.
Someone who has taken their car, and still hooked into it is not a victim, they're a problem.



https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/young-...Dy2tXVsH4HXz5E

They are not a problem buddy according the Judge: Quote: “She’s the type of person everyone would like to see succeed and become a leader.”

Most of what I read I call bullshit to get herself off and it doesn't sound like she went quietly on the night LOL
That article Blames everyone and everything else other than herself for the Drink, Assault and bad decisions etc etc.
Four times the limit and unaware she was drunk yeh right! So now the more drunk you are the better the justification??
Secondly Let's blame Dad even though we are smart enough now to be studying for a masters.

FFS There is no "line in the sand" anymore not for state housing, ram raids, drunk driving and we wonder why we are where we are now

[Berries]

So, what happens on those city roads that are reduced to a 30kph limit? Are police saying the limit is 30kph and at busy times they will be there enforcing the law and giving out tickets? Or are police going to be giving out tickets at any time, including when there isn't a single pedestrian or cyclist to be seen? In my experience the police give out tickets to anyone that exceeds the limit that has been set, regardless of whether the driving is safe or unsafe - then the ads tell me that it is about safety! I don't believe it is about safety, because if it was the police would not be overly bothered about strictly enforcing the limits at times of the day when the risk factors that were used to decide the lower speed limit are not present. I'm informed that the police are not supposed to use discretion, anyone travelling over 10kph above the limit is supposed to be ticketed according to police policy. Then there is this BS about being OK to ticket motorists for ANY speed above the limit, as if there is any safety difference between 50kph and 51kph - I can't see niggling over 1 or 2 kph making any difference to safety. The ads show some situations where speed is a problem and say it is about safety, I've never been ticketed for situations depicted in the ads. The ads don't show someone safely driving along a straight road and getting ticketed because their speed exceeded the posted limit, they don't give an honest look at what the police are doing.

Enforcing the limits more strictly when there are greater risk factors (like school children getting out of school) is fine by me, that actually makes sense. But I have been ticketed for exceeding the limit and nothing else, no pedestrians out on the paths or road, no cyclists, no cars near me, only the cop further ahead - I don't believe the BS about it all being to do with safety when I'm ticketed for riding safely but over the limit. It isn't about safety, it is about enforcing the limit that Waka Kotahi have decided to set.

Nice post.

In the end the speed limit is the speed limit is the speed limit like a stop sign is a stop sign is a stop sign and a centre line is a centre line is centre line. That's why there is heavy enforcement of stops signs with good visibility where lots of people roll through instead of those where the sign is really warranted and crashes happen. That's why there is enforcement of crossing the centre line on corners where you can clearly see through the corner and know it is safe to do so rather than those where there is a massive blindspot. That's why there is a speed camera parked on the Dunedin motorway right now which has a design speed of 110km/h and has a hill on it with a bridge at the bottom where speed enforcement is regularly undertaken because it is easy to catch people out rather than patrol those roads with an actual speed related crash problem.

Some will say if you cross the centre line on some corners you will cross it on all of them which is clearly shit. Some will say if you flout some stop signs you flout them all which is clearly shit. Some will say if you are on a long down hill motorway with median barriers and gravity gets you to 108km/h then you are a habitual speeder. That's one view anyway. It does however give you the impression that there is some revenue gathering going on when you see it so often in places where there are no issues with the behaviour that is being ticketed.

Of course they won't be enforcing the 30km/h speed limit when it is busy because when it is busy congestion means that is the speed that people are doing - ie when lots of peds are around the speed limit is generally self enforcing. It will be 10pm when you are trying to get back from the massage parlour before the wife finishes her shift at Countdown. DAMHIK

The word 'discretion' was removed from the Police training manual many years ago.

[Berries]

The engineering solution is gold plated, long term and ultra expensive. We might get there one day, but that day is a very long way off.

Most deaths are caused by human error, or extreme behaviour. It's hard to educate, engineer or enforce for those things, as nobody ever thinks they are the problem, so nobody ever thinks they need to change.

After mumble mumble years in engineering I can now see the whole thing to be a crock that just wastes millions of dollars supporting an industry that wont achieve anything measurable.

My solution now is to erect a full size cross at the scene of every fatal crash and nail the guilty party to it, whether they were the one who died or not. A crash on Saturday night makes the papers on Sunday and gets spoken about on Monday then it is forgotten. Nail the bastards up as a constant reminder.

[rastuscat]

Yep, I totally agree. But most tickets are not for human error or extreme behaviour.

Good that we agree on something.

Getting a ticket slows people down, as it causes them to pay more attention to their speed.

Can we agree then that when a human error takes place, the slower a participant is going, the better off they are?

So, logically, tickets make people slow down, which reduces the impact of human error crashes.

That's about where we are at present.

If drivers/riders were actually as awesome as they think they are, it wouldn't be necessary to slow the population down.

So it's on us, really. To improve.

[Reckless]

Good that we agree on something.

Getting a ticket slows people down, as it causes them to pay more attention to their speed.

Can we agree then that when a human error takes place, the slower a participant is going, the better off they are?

So, logically, tickets make people slow down, which reduces the impact of human error crashes.

That's about where we are at present.

If drivers/riders were actually as awesome as they think they are, it wouldn't be necessary to slow the population down.

So it's on us, really. To improve.

I get your theory but it doesn't seem to be working speed limits are to a point even Granny seems to be ignoring them and using a sensible speed.
The ones that do are the ones that go even slower around any corner. These have long lines of frustrated motorists behind, trapped by yellow lines and then trying to pass at 103k on the infrequent passing lanes because of the Radar traps. The whole thing is a stuff up.
I reckon they need to start Issuing a lot more tickets for Cell phones, Distraction, not keeping to the left, the penalties for drink driving need to go up, raise the bar to get your license and make the penalties for blatant speed over 40k over a sensible open road 100k limit a lot stiffer.
Maybe a new law if you can't hold a straight driving line for 1/2 k and veer to the inner and outer lines = Careless driving.
We could mention the state of the roads but atm but the storms have negated that argument a little.
Getting a ticket for 102k in a 90K zone, on a main highway from a speed camera or cop when the whole damn line is travelling quit safely at 100k and no one is trying to pass, is not conveying the message.
It is actually quite stressful trying to get past that truck belching out fumes @108k's on a passing lane with Joe bloggs hard up your arse not wanting to be stuck behind him in the hills either. Let people get out 100-120 pass on a straight and get back in drop back to 100k. I think it is actually the safest way to clear the 80-90k campervans etc.

It is on people to improve agreed!
But as with any society the rules have to make them or guide them and ticketing only speed and not ticketing the actual causes are just making people do the same shit 10K slower.
You might save a few for justification of the ethos and stats but the issue is not being tackled. So every time the stats don't show decline you drop the speeds again to justify lowering the stats????
The blunt instrument called speed under the name of safety is not working and hasn't for some time.

[Jantar]

Good that we agree on something.

....
Can we agree then that when a human error takes place, the slower a participant is going, the better off they are?...

No, that is one thing we will not agree on. For motorcyclists the most dangerous speed is 45 to 65 km/h. At that speed when you come off you just flop and stop, and that is where the G force results in broken bones or worse. At higher speeds, unless you hit a solid obstruction, you will slide or tumble and take longer to stop so less force on the body. At less than 45 kmh a rider will often stay with the bike and allow it to take a lot of the impact.

My personal experience backs up this claim as my only two serious injuries occurred at 65 and 55 kmh. But coming off on the back straight of Levels at close to 200 kmh resulted in a bruise.

[FJRider]

Good that we agree on something.

The local Dunedin City council recently spent millions of $$$ widening and straightening the corners of Portabello Road, which runs the length of the Eastern side of Otago Harbour. It was (in it's original state) a 60 km/hr road.


Then ... they reduced the speed limit on the road to 40 km/hr ... to make it safer for us. Apparently.



I think that the general consensus of opinion is ... We do not agree.

[Jantar]

The local Dunedin City council recently spent millions of $$$ widening and straightening the corners of Portabello Road, which runs the length of the Eastern side of Otago Harbour. It was (in it's original state) a 60 km/hr road.


Then ... they reduced the speed limit on the road to 40 km/hr ... to make it safer for us. Apparently.



I think that the general consensus of opinion is ... We do not agree.

It was originally a 55 MPH road. That's 88 km/h.

[Reckless]

The local Dunedin City council recently spent millions of $$$ widening and straightening the corners of Portabello Road, which runs the length of the Eastern side of Otago Harbour. It was (in it's original state) a 60 km/hr road.

Then ... they reduced the speed limit on the road to 40 km/hr ... to make it safer for us. Apparently.

I think that the general consensus of opinion is ... We do not agree.

And how many are actually going the 40 unless the are there or a camera in place.
Are we past the point the speeds are so nonsensical people in general are no longer obeying them.

[FJRider]

And how many are actually going the 40 unless the are there or a camera in place.
Are we past the point the speeds are so nonsensical people in general are no longer obeying them.

Most ARE actually. It is the main tourist route to Taiaroa Head ... where the Albatross Colony is. Busses and campervans, motorbikes even. A shared Walking/cycle path on the water side of the road. A few cars even end up in the water ... but in most cases this is not a speed related cause/end result ...

[rastuscat]

The 100 and 50 limits are a historical anomoly. They had no basis in scientific discovery. They were just a way to make it all easy to understand.

Increasingly now speed limits are going to be set to a scientific (the law of physics) standard.

It's just going to take a long time to wean ourselves off the old system.

[jellywrestler]

Increasingly now speed limits are going to be set to a scientific (the law of physics) standard.

the physics of the road or the physics of a crash?, certainly not the first. just done the kaikoura coast in heavy rain, and the dry, cunt of a trip as the trucks were all tapped out at 80 km in the 80 km zone and made it hard to pass them as there was no differential in speed limit.
the limit went for miles in one place on one of the newest and best roads in nz
It seemed a lot of people were bored and spent a lot of time gazing at the sea, i saw several vehciles swerving when they looked back on the road.