Scooters are depressing

**buggerit** · 3rd December 2014, 13:21

Originally Posted by cassina

BTW How many accidents do you think I have had that are with another vehicle?

We dont do mind reading, only observation, you might want to try it

**Ender EnZed** · 3rd December 2014, 13:36

Originally Posted by cassina

How many accidents do you think I have had that are with another vehicle?

Too fucking many.

**BlackSheepLogic** · 3rd December 2014, 13:37

Originally Posted by cassina

I have yet to read someone on here saying their "IAMs" (as an example) training has saved them when another driver screwed up.

Recently had a car roll though a roundabout, then seeing me after he entered the roundabout used his anchors to stop blocking both lanes. I pulled up the bike within a few inches of the car. It was not the ability to read the drivers mind - the approach speed, position of the car, and not making eye contact with the driver were clues that this driver may not have seen the bike, or even looked for other vehicles on the roundabout.

A lot of roadcraft is about looking for risks. Although experience plays a part (I'm pretty waring of any intersection). Working with an instructor does improve risk observation and the awareness of what's happening around us

**HenryDorsetCase** · 3rd December 2014, 13:39

Originally Posted by cassina

Don't you think if I have been riding that long I would be riding pretty much the same way that is taught in any training programme anyway?
Training programmes do not offer you full protection against situations that are the fault of others.

I have yet to read someone on here saying their "IAMs" (as an example) training has saved them when another driver screwed up.

[youtube]V2f-MZ2HRHQ[/youtube]

**bogan** · 3rd December 2014, 13:44

Originally Posted by cassina

I am just glad the justice system does not have people like you handing out traffic accident fines as I bet you would hand them out to the innocent victims of crashes too as your way of thinking does confirm that and I bet they would be equal too. BTW How many accidents do you think I have had that are with another vehicle?

Who said anything about fault? The ability to avoid an accident is not the same as causing it. I think this is your problem, you're too caught up in who is 'right' to remain 'upright' when an incident occurs.

Enough that you even get to use the qualifier 'with another vehicle'...

How many subsections in you accident repertoire are there

**James Deuce** · 3rd December 2014, 13:53

Originally Posted by cassina

I am just glad the justice system does not have people like you handing out traffic accident fines as I bet you would hand them out to the innocent victims of crashes too as your way of thinking does confirm that and I bet they would be equal too.

"No fault" and "innocent" are two very different things. There are no innocent parties in any accident. I'm almost willing to give passengers a break, but that's a compromise based on their likelihood of distracting the rider/driver vs. culpability.

I've never had an accident I wasn't responsible for. There was always a better choice that would have avoided it, but I made errors of judgment that made the avoidable inevitable. But irrespective of the justice system and insurance company's decisions (neither of which believe I've been at fault in an accident) they've all been my own stupid fault. I've had two single vehicle accidents. One was a head high sheep and the other was a pool of diesel around a blind corner. Can't plan for those. But both times my head was elsewhere. Observation and responses flawed. Both avoidable for a number of reasons.

**James Deuce** · 3rd December 2014, 15:15

Originally Posted by cassina

As you have said you have never had an accident you were not responsible for this would explain why you don't understand where I am coming from. Why do you not see the farmer who let his sheep run on the road and the driver that dumped the diesel as being responsible for you crashing? That's like me saying it was my fault being in the way of the other motorists when they screwed up?

It would be your fault for being in the way. You need to make sure you are not there.

It's not the farmer's fault I didn't see his sheep. It's mine. Combined with I should't have even been on that road, I should have taken the shorter route to meet my wife at the cafe instead of being a dick and being disrespectful and expecting her to be late. My head was in the wrong place so I made a mistake I didn't need to make. The sheep was avoidable, just like the mob I'd just gently trickled through at walking pace. I SHOULD have expected some outliers.

There were many clues that there was an incident ahead when I fell off on an extensive diesel slick. The big pile of clay on the apex of the corner should have been enough of a hint to stop rather than slow, but I was having fun. My fault entirely.

You can whinge about the scenario that "caused" the accident all you want. The only person who can avoid it is me. I'd rather get better at that than blaming other people and circumstances for events that ultimately only affect me and the people who rely on me. My responsibility is to learn how to do this motorcycle thing better all the time, not sit back and let other people's whims dictate my fate.

**Murray** · 3rd December 2014, 15:22

Originally Posted by cassina

I don't think you are aware of it but yes you (we) do place trust in other motorists on the road and I gave the example of trusting cars going the other way not to cross the centre line and hit you. Good luck with however you think when on the road.

Originally Posted by James Deuce

It would be your fault for being in the way. You need to make sure you are not there.

It's not the farmer's fault I didn't see his sheep. It's mine. Combined with I should't have even been on that road, I should have taken the shorter route to meet my wife at the cafe instead of being a dick and being disrespectful and expecting her to be late. My head was in the wrong place so I made a mistake I didn't need to make. The sheep was avoidable, just like the mob I'd just gently trickled through at walking pace. I SHOULD have expected some outliers.

There were many clues that there was an incident ahead when I fell off on an extensive diesel slick. The big pile of clay on the apex of the corner should have been enough of a hint to stop rather than slow, but I was having fun. My fault entirely.

You can whinge about the scenario that "caused" the accident all you want. The only person who can avoid it is me. I'd rather get better at that than blaming other people and circumstances for events that ultimately only affect me and the people who rely on me. My responsibility is to learn how to do this motorcycle thing better all the time, not sit back and let other people's whims dictate my fate.

Can't green bling you again - must spread first

**jasonu** · 3rd December 2014, 16:14

Originally Posted by cassina

So if you had died your family would have blamed you and not the farmer or whoever spilt the diesel? You need to write a will saying that if you ever get killed as a result of someone else's negligence you want no blame whatsoever placed on them. Reverse blame is something I have never ever heard of before.

You really are a thick cunt.

**buggerit** · 3rd December 2014, 16:30

Originally Posted by cassina

So if you had died your family would have blamed you and not the farmer or whoever spilt the diesel? You need to write a will saying that if you ever get killed as a result of someone else's negligence you want no blame whatsoever placed on them. Reverse blame is something I have never ever heard of before.

Situational awareness in both cases may have avoided or mitigated the accidents, so the sheep and the diesel were there, and
obsrtuctions that may have been avoided with more thought, then both incidents would have been a non event.
James Deuce is shouldering some of the blame for not being on his game,good on him for an honest assessment of his accident
and moving on to improve, something you cant do if you cant recognise your own faults .

**Big Dog** · 3rd December 2014, 16:33

Originally Posted by cassina

So if you had died your family would have blamed you and not the farmer or whoever spilt the diesel? You need to write a will saying that if you ever get killed as a result of someone else's negligence you want no blame whatsoever placed on them. Reverse blame is something I have never ever heard of before.

And there in lies the principal difference between fault = full or partial blame vs fault = legal liability / culpability.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

**haydes55** · 3rd December 2014, 16:46

Cassina..... Has anyone ever agreed with your arguments?

Is that not proof enough that you should at least open your mind to different options to help stay upright?

You're quick to ask why people ride if they are so scared of other factors which could cause a crash. When in reality, I don't know if I would ride or drive at all if I believed that unavoidable accidents could occur. I think you must have girl balls the size of guy martins man balls if you know that around any corner you could crash and die, and there is nothing you could do about it.

Just going by what you post (and in all fairness sometimes the words people choose don't always portray their opinion accurately), you seem to treat riding like a game of Russian roulette with a million empty chambers and a couple of bullets.... Whereas everyone else is still playing the same game of Russian roulette, but we choose to move our head out of the sights before pulling the trigger.

**corsaro128** · 3rd December 2014, 19:33

Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase

So is OP considering my offer, or what?

FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS

HmmmmmMMMM

**bogan** · 3rd December 2014, 20:17

Originally Posted by cassina

Firstly those that disagree with my argument are always the same 3 or 4 people out of maybe several hundred or even thousand guys who are members of this site.

So anyone who doesn't actively disagree with you, must agree with you by default? Does that apply to what those same 3 or 4 people are saying to, I mean three people are saying essentially the same thing, to only your disagreement; so do the sums and 4x the number of registers users on this site agree with me and think you are a complete moron.