Petition to align New Zealand motorcycle ACC levy structures to LAMS

**TheDemonLord** · 5th February 2015, 09:33

Originally Posted by FJRider

Buy a smaller bike and learn to ride it properly.

I did, I had a 250 Hornet before, which I crashed, repaired and then got a bigger bike.

As a matter of interest, when I took my resticted CBT test, I got I think 11 mistakes (which was a pass), on my Full licence test (which was on my 650, after almost a year of commuiting on it everyday) - 4 mistakes.

Out of interest - how many people posting in this thread have experience riding a LAMS bike vs a 250cc bike? and by experience I mean riding it at least for a week?

**TheDemonLord** · 5th February 2015, 10:09

Originally Posted by cassina

If the class of bike called LAMS had been around in the late 1970s both my XL350 and XL500s would have been called LAMS. I kept the XL350 for 2 years and the XL500 for 3 years.

So thats a 'No' then

Further - has anyone ridden a LAMs bike since they came out?

**TheDemonLord** · 5th February 2015, 10:35

Originally Posted by cassina

I have had a ride of a Honda GROM 125 which is a true LAMS era bike if you don't believe any bike manufactured before LAMS came in could qualify as being LAMS compliant. Why not take one for a test ride yourself because others will have different opinions to you on how they like them anyway.

No.

any 125 or 250 cc Bike was okay to ride before the LAMS rules came into effect.

I am talking about the LAMS approved bikes (either bikes that under the old rules weren't allowed or new bikes that were restricted in order to be sold as a LAMS bike)

As for why not take one for a test ride, I ride a LAMS bike....

**James Deuce** · 5th February 2015, 10:46

Originally Posted by Luckylegs

Maybe its another badly written document, maybe I just read too much into what it said... could be.

This.

You're reading too much into it. Someone's Grandad will have told them anything over 650 was a "big" bike so it's become policy. They really don't put too much thought into it. Having said that the LAMS concept is based in some sound research done at Monash as well as using source research for the multi-class power to weight restrictions in places like the UK. IN other words our lot did a cut and paste. I don't believe that the accidents stats are granular enough to tell if it's bikes landing on people doing damage or what they hit, though I suspect anecdotally that what you hit is worse than a bike landing on you.

For the record, a late 80s FZR250 weighs 141kg. A DR650 weighs 147kgs. They put out roughly the same Hp. But the low-end torque of the 650 makes it way easier for a n00b to ride.

**Luckylegs** · 5th February 2015, 11:08

Originally Posted by cassina

My reply was not to you muppet.

I know! However your comment was not relevant to the thread, so.....

**Luckylegs** · 5th February 2015, 12:35

Originally Posted by James Deuce

This.

You're reading too much into it. Someone's Grandad will have told them anything over 650 was a "big" bike so it's become policy. They really don't put too much thought into it. Having said that the LAMS concept is based in some sound research done at Monash as well as using source research for the multi-class power to weight restrictions in places like the UK. IN other words our lot did a cut and paste. I don't believe that the accidents stats are granular enough to tell if it's bikes landing on people doing damage or what they hit, though I suspect anecdotally that what you hit is worse than a bike landing on you.

For the record, a late 80s FZR250 weighs 141kg. A DR650 weighs 147kgs. They put out roughly the same Hp. But the low-end torque of the 650 makes it way easier for a n00b to ride.

Very good! I also had the wrong bike in mind while referring to the DR. We were talking DR when I was picturing the bohemoth monstrosity that is a DL650 (of which there is a version on the lams list) which tips the scales at over 200kg.

Originally Posted by James Deuce

...though I suspect anecdotally that what you hit is worse than a bike landing on you.

Presuming that the rider hits something at all (as opposed to being hit) or that a big bill only occurs if you hit something...

**TheDemonLord** · 5th February 2015, 13:44

Originally Posted by cassina

If you check this website http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/gett...cles/lams.html you will find both the bikes I mentioned are now LAMS approved which I had thought they would be due to being not high performance or over 650cc. The XL350 is actually called an SL350 in the list but its just a later model of the same bike. So you are not the only poster on here who has owned a LAMs bike.

Okay, so 40 years ago, you owned a Bike, that at the time, wasn't allowed to be ridden by a Learner.

Have you ridden a bike since the LAMs rule came into effect? Have you ridden a Bike that is restricted to comply with the LAMs requirements?

**Banditbandit** · 5th February 2015, 14:08

Can't be fucked reading the whole thread to see if this has been said before ...

LAMS riders are more likely to crash due to inexperience - they should pay the same as us experienced riders -so no, I won't sign the petition.

**Reckless** · 5th February 2015, 14:09

Edited cause I'm a Dumb ass LMAO

But in essence I don't really agree a 650F should be a lams bike at all?
I also agree that it shouldn't be in the 1000cc category for rego??
Surly its not to hard to do a power to weight Ratio calculation so there's a line in the sand??
Something akin to what a VTR250 or a 250 bandit produces for a lams bike IMHO.
A heck of a lot of larger bikes have similar HP than the GSX650F if this partition is successful should also be allowed, they will never do it on that premise alone.

The point is We are Getting ripped on CC rated rego's!! There needs to be serious revise of the system??

But bikers in NZ will never get together well enough to challenge the system like this http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf...otorcycles.htm or MAG in England. Kiwibikers just winge on the internet instead of getting involved and making things happen in the form of protest they want to be involved in?
I'm bloody sure MAG would love 10,000 (or even 2000) paid up members, some researching, some lobbying and some protesting.

The guts of the petition is the hypocrisy of ACC in putting and charging for a bike in a high risk category then giving it to learners as a lams machine??
If they approve the extra 51cc where does it stop? Next thing we will be reading is 650cc learners are the highest crash group?
Thats stupid and makes the whole ACC system look dumb, uninformed and untrustworthy.

One person or small group initiated petitions will never work imho. And they wont let this one through either I don't reckon?
We need to Fight this as a bikers nationally and we as bikers are to disorganized and separatist to get our shit together.

My 2c

**Banditbandit** · 5th February 2015, 14:20

Originally Posted by Reckless

Hate to interrupt another Ms Cassina show with a comment?

But in essence I don't really agree a 650F should be a lams bike at all?
I also agree that it shouldn't be in the 1000cc category for rego??

I agree ... but then the LAMS version is the GSX650FU ... a very detuned version of the 650 Bandit ...

I also think that the 650F does belong with the bigger bikes - I've seen 217 kph on the clock on my air-cooled and carbed one .. which has much the same power as the later water-cooled, inject bike - which I have left in my dust on Hampton Downs. And yeah, I have the older 650 and the newer 1250 - so I pay the top rego cost on two bikes (as do many people here ...)

But I think ACC costs should go with the rider, not with the bike ...

**Reckless** · 5th February 2015, 14:31

Originally Posted by Banditbandit

I agree ... but then the LAMS version is the GSX650FU ... a very detuned version of the 650 Bandit ...

I also think that the 650F does belong with the bigger bikes - I've seen 217 kph on the clock on my air-cooled and carbed one .. which has much the same power as the later water-cooled, inject bike - which I have left in my dust on Hampton Downs. And yeah, I have the older 650 and the newer 1250 - so I pay the top rego cost on two bikes (as do many people here ...)

But I think ACC costs should go with the rider, not with the bike ...

Oh my Bad thanks Bandit (you must spread some rep ...) I'll go back and edit the correct info LMAO

Cant find the HP at a quick search they are all blanked on the FU?? But you get the point?

Maybe TheDemon has them in his bike manual??

**Ocean1** · 5th February 2015, 14:33

Originally Posted by Reckless

Thats stupid and makes the whole ACC system look dumb, uninformed and untrustworthy.

**Reckless** · 5th February 2015, 14:45

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Yeh deserve a bit of stick for that

650FU Forums say 25Kw or 34hp my bad time for the KB Stretching rack

Edited DUH lol

**Luckylegs** · 5th February 2015, 15:20

But the dam things as heavy as my CBR. This must effect its ability/stablility/fall overness in emergency situations meaning riders of these bikes are at just as much risk of injury in an accident????