Petition to align New Zealand motorcycle ACC levy structures to LAMS

[Luckylegs]

How many times have you had a bike land on you?

Really JD, you're better than that...

The likelihood of being unable to handle the heavier bike and the injury from dropping it regardless of whether the things hits you or not. I know for a fact that if I had moments like I had on my gpx250 when I was learning on a 200kg bike I'd have likely hurt myself

[mossy1200]

Most likely outcome if anything is changed will be all bikes will cost $427.18. That's assuming they don't use the opportunity to lift that while they make the changes. Would net them more bike tax and decrease the chance anyone will try another petition.

[Kickaha]

The high cost of bike rego needs to be shared by car drivers who hit bikes because they did not see them. Punish them by making them pay the highest motorbike reg for life on their cars.

How do we punish the at fault motorcyclists who hit cars then?

[James Deuce]

The high cost of bike rego needs to be shared by car drivers who hit bikes because they did not see them. Punish them by making them pay the highest motorbike reg for life on their cars.

No it doesn't. ACC isn't an insurance scheme. It loosely falls into the category, but it is actually a compensation scheme designed primarily to avoid the escalating cycle of litigation post-accident, where he or she with the biggest lawyer and wallet can destroy the "innocent" party in an accident in court. The whole point of ACC is the society carries the cost and amortizes the funding for rehabilitation and funerals across the vast range of requirements that stem from the results of accidents.

There isn't actually any proof that motorcyclists are particularly expensive in the grand scheme of things. DIYers cost the country 1 billion. People falling down stairs and falling over in the bathroom cost 500 million. Don't see them being targeted and "punished". Horse riders cost more to rehab than motorcyclists by a factor of 2. 300 million vs. 150 million and they have less accidents than motorcyclists. You need to stop perpetuating the myth that motorcyclists are both special and "costly to society". They're not.

[Reckless]

The high cost of bike rego needs to be shared by car drivers who hit bikes because they did not see them. Punish them by making them pay the highest motorbike reg for life on their cars.

The at fault motorcyclists are already being punished as they pay more than car drivers. Under the current system the motorcyclist is being punished whether they are at fault or not. Do you think that is fair?

No argument on that one?? And that is the crux of the Matter ACC is supposed to be a NO Fault system if you allocate fault and charge accordingly surly you are an insurer.
1967: Woodhouse Commission recommendations
The Woodhouse Commission recommends a ‘no-fault’ accident compensation scheme
The report recommended a completely new ‘no-fault’ approach to compensation for personal injury. It recommended a scheme to cover:
-all motor vehicle injuries, funded by a levy on owners of motor vehicles and drivers
-all injuries to earners whether occurring at work or not, funded by a flat-rate levy on employers for the cost of all injuries to their employees.
-A levy on the self-employed to pay for injuries occurring at work or outside of work was also proposed

No it doesn't. ACC isn't an insurance scheme. It loosely falls into the category, but it is actually a compensation scheme designed primarily to avoid the escalating cycle of litigation post-accident, where he or she with the biggest lawyer and wallet can destroy the "innocent" party in an accident in court. The whole point of ACC is the society carries the cost and amortizes the funding for rehabilitation and funerals across the vast range of requirements that stem from the results of accidents.

There isn't actually any proof that motorcyclists are particularly expensive in the grand scheme of things. DIYers cost the country 1 billion. People falling down stairs and falling over in the bathroom cost 500 million. Don't see them being targeted and "punished". Horse riders cost more to rehab than motorcyclists by a factor of 2. 300 million vs. 150 million and they have less accidents than motorcyclists. You need to stop perpetuating the myth that motorcyclists are both special and "costly to society". They're not.

I disagree about the insurance thing you put forward, but as an aside MAG could do with someone like you big time.

[mossy1200]

Horse riders cost more to rehab than motorcyclists by a factor of 2. 300 million vs. 150 million and they have less accidents than motorcyclists.

Wonder what would happen if they decided to ear tag horses with a acc registration fee. Face it we are a soft minority target with an existing method of collecting funds. If they could tax MX bikes and enforce it they would but they don't have a method to do it at the moment.

[Ocean1]

If they could tax MX bikes and enforce it they would but they don't have a method to do it at the moment.

Fond memories of playing cops and robbers up the Hutt firebreaks when the local fed's got trail bikes. Briefly.

[Reckless]

Fond memories of playing cops and robbers up the Hutt firebreaks when the local fed's got trail bikes. Briefly.

There were some horrid head on crashes up there tho

Quote Originally Posted by mossy1200 View Post
If they could tax MX bikes and enforce it they would but they don't have a method to do it at the moment.

IF they do they'd better use the same method for cyclists

[Ocean1]

There were some horrid head on crashes up there tho

Aye. I stared in one. The kneecap has never been the same.

[mossy1200]

There were some horrid head on crashes up there tho

Quote Originally Posted by mossy1200 View Post
If they could tax MX bikes and enforce it they would but they don't have a method to do it at the moment.

IF they do they'd better use the same method for cyclists

Im not for MX tax im against minority tax(motorcycling).
Still say every licence holder should pay acc as a one figure amount to cover anything they can legally drive or ride rather than per vehicle. It is after all for the repair cost of the person which there is one of only( plus passengers if you want to get technical...oops maybe people mover cars should cost more as hold more people).
If they could they would try introduce a fart tax also.

[Kickaha]

The at fault motorcyclists are already being punished as they pay more than car drivers. Under the current system the motorcyclist is being punished whether they are at fault or not. Do you think that is fair?

On the scale of "shit I actually care about" that doesn't even rate a blip on the giveafuckometer

[TheDemonLord]

The bikes I have ridden since LAMs came in are too big to qualify. I sold the XL500 in 1982 What exactly are you trying to find out from your questioning considering you know the answers yourself about the feel of a LAMs bike?

To point out that you haven't ridden a LAMs bike.

You rode a series of bike 30-40 years ago that have since become LAMs approved, but have not ridden a LAMs bike recently.

As with others in this topic, I would bet very few of you have seriously ridden a LAMs bike in recent times.

I shall start with why I ride a 650 LAMs bike:

I ride alot of Ks - I think Cassina, in another thread I even gave you a very quick rundown of the minimum distance I ride. I did it on a 250 and it was fine, but it was a lot of work - my 650 is simply easier to ride on long distance.

I like the bigger bike feel - especially in wind and weather - the bike is more stable and more comfy.

Fuel gauge and gear indicator - cause I am lazy and am used to having those in my Cage.

I also like the fact that it is a 650 (MROE POWAAAAAH!) but in seriousness - I think the here that it is both good, but could do with tweaking - If I rode my 650 straight after my BHS - I would almost certainly have twatted myself seriously on it. the power and torque is a lot to handle, even before the limiter kicks in. however going onto a restricted 650 from a 250 provided a very good stepping stone - allowing me to get used to handling a bike with more power, while not overloading my abilities and experiance. When I apply for my Full licence (2 months!) I shalll de-restrict my 650 and ride it as a full power bike - again this will be a stepping stone.

Then when I come to sell it, I am looking to get either a 1300 or a 1250, which will be another step up again.

The point here is that LAMs allows you enough of a taste of a big power bike, allowing you to learn to control it, while limiting it so that you don't end up dead - and from this PoV LAMs is a good idea.

To reply to Bandit on another matter:

if ACC had a levy against the rider due to being a learner - then okay, but the point of the petition is that ACC are not playing by their own rules.

[Luckylegs]

To point out that you haven't ridden a LAMs bike.

You rode a series of bike 30-40 years ago that have since become LAMs approved, but have not ridden a LAMs bike recently.

As with others in this topic, I would bet very few of you have seriously ridden a LAMs bike in recent times.

I shall start with why I ride a 650 LAMs bike:

I ride alot of Ks - I think Cassina, in another thread I even gave you a very quick rundown of the minimum distance I ride. I did it on a 250 and it was fine, but it was a lot of work - my 650 is simply easier to ride on long distance.

I like the bigger bike feel - especially in wind and weather - the bike is more stable and more comfy.

Fuel gauge and gear indicator - cause I am lazy and am used to having those in my Cage.

I also like the fact that it is a 650 (MROE POWAAAAAH!) but in seriousness - I think the here that it is both good, but could do with tweaking - If I rode my 650 straight after my BHS - I would almost certainly have twatted myself seriously on it. the power and torque is a lot to handle, even before the limiter kicks in. however going onto a restricted 650 from a 250 provided a very good stepping stone - allowing me to get used to handling a bike with more power, while not overloading my abilities and experiance. When I apply for my Full licence (2 months!) I shalll de-restrict my 650 and ride it as a full power bike - again this will be a stepping stone.

Then when I come to sell it, I am looking to get either a 1300 or a 1250, which will be another step up again.

The point here is that LAMs allows you enough of a taste of a big power bike, allowing you to learn to control it, while limiting it so that you don't end up dead - and from this PoV LAMs is a good idea.

To reply to Bandit on another matter:

if ACC had a levy against the rider due to being a learner - then okay, but the point of the petition is that ACC are not playing by their own rules.

You makes ya choices though eh?

The petition is like moving in next to the airport or local speedway and then complaining about the noise.

[eldog]

level the rego cost then
perhaps the fuel tax should be increase - fund direct to ACC, like tobacco
tax it so high we wont use it.

[TheDemonLord]

You makes ya choices though eh?

The petition is like moving in next to the airport or local speedway and then complaining about the noise.

A more apt description would be that you own a section of 1000 m2, but 200 m2 is a radioactive swamp, that the council says you can't do anything with. Come time for Rates however, they charge you for the full 1000 m2, as prime residential land, even though their own rules say that only 800 m2 is prime residential land.....