Alternatives to petrol

[TheDemonLord]

An electric car?

No.

An electric commuter vehicle?

Yes.

Until such time that an electric car can match my car for range AND refuel time, then it isn't a true alternative.

[The Reibz]

I've always thought of Diesel to be a good alternative to Petrol.
You don't even have to pay RUC if you have a sparky to install a switch for yah

[willytheekid]

Thorium!...what NZ & the rest of the world should be investing in.

http://www.ted.com/talks/kirk_sorens...e_nuclear_fuel

Imagine the price of electricity if we had Thorium reactors...and thorium powered bikes!

[Naki Rat]

We bought a Nissan LEAF last July and have been very impressed with it. Sure the battery range is about 100km but that is more than enough to get the OH to work for two days running, and then we charge it either from our PV if sunny and convenient, or overnight if more practical.

Recharge costs about $4 based on retail power rates or a third of that if Meridian's miserly buy-back rate is applied to PV generated power that would otherwise be exported, so 4c/km or <1.5c/km with no engine or trans to maintain. As a comparison our 3.8L Commodore (trips and trailer 2nd vehicle) chews through 22-26c of petrol/km plus maintenance costs.

Battery technology is the single biggest barrier to EV uptake and presently this is being addressed by 'supporting' the km range by way of an ICE (i.e. hybrids). With virtually every major car manufacturer currently developing or releasing EVs or hybrids though it will only be a year or two before advances in technology make solely electric powered vehicles practical and commonplace. The demand for improvements to electricity storage is also strong in the micro-generation (PV, wind, hydro) industry and this and EV batteries are very much interlinked. We are proof of this as we effectively use the LEAF to squirrel away generation whenever practical.

Tesla is going from strength to strength and is leading the charge in terms of charging facility networks in north America, Europe and currently east coast Australia. Their battery swapping facilities are another angle on this and Tesla are also constructing a huge battery 'gigafactory' in Nevada in conjunction with Panasonic aimed primarily at storage of domestic and commercial scale PV and wind generation but of course will also have downstream benefits for EVs.

The idea that 'petrol stations' will remain to be the expected location for vehicles to 'refuel' is a a narrow view of the future IMO. With 50Kw fast chargers already able to replenish an EVs battery in 15-30 minutes the more practical location for such facilities would be at those places where people already spend that length of time such as shopping centres or eateries. A 'switched on' restaurant for example need only add the <$5 power cost to his meal/s and 'free' charging makes a good drawcard for EV drivers to his eatery.

Currently battery manufacture is reliant on precious minerals but even now Nissan is addressing this by offering a US$5,500 exchange system for LEAF batteries (in the US) that have lost sufficient storage capacity to maintain practical km range. While the 'used' battery is not 'fit for purpose' in terms of EV use but is more than sufficient for less demanding applications such as PV storage in domestic situations.

Other alternatives such as hydrogen, fuel cells, etc. seem to be coming a distant second to EVs with 'refueling' infrastructure being the primary difficulty it would seem. Obviously electricity distribution is already in place in most countries so it should just be a matter of hooking up charging units at appropriate locations, possibly supported by PV/wind/hydro powered installations in more remote places.

[nzspokes]

I reckon road suitability for cycles is right up there for the biggest trouble. Normal pedly places can just service the serviceable parts on electric drive bikes, treat the rest as a black box, which it generally is anyway.

What is coming up though?

In Aucks for my ride in it will be mostly cycle lane. So all good.

Yes and no to the service bit. The box as such will need to go to a service center. The manufacturers will require this.

No ground breaking advances more getting some standards in so we dont have everybody making different motor mounts etc.

[bogan]

In Aucks for my ride in it will be mostly cycle lane. So all good.

Yes and no to the service bit. The box as such will need to go to a service center. The manufacturers will require this.

No ground breaking advances more getting some standards in so we dont have everybody making different motor mounts etc.

Stink, I was hoping for a full electric drive, with pedal generator; none of this pedal assist malarkey.

[TheDemonLord]

The idea that 'petrol stations' will remain to be the expected location for vehicles to 'refuel' is a a narrow view of the future IMO. With 50Kw fast chargers already able to replenish an EVs battery in 15-30 minutes the more practical location for such facilities would be at those places where people already spend that length of time such as shopping centres or eateries. A 'switched on' restaurant for example need only add the <$5 power cost to his meal/s and 'free' charging makes a good drawcard for EV drivers to his eatery.

Thats all well and good if I want to spend 15-30 minutes at a location, but what if I don't? now the Electric vehicle is forcing me to change my travel habits, With a Petrol vehicle I can choose to spend 15-30 minutes or 5 minutes, How long I spend is determined only by me, not the vehicle I drive.

I am all for Electric Vehicles, but until they can do all the things my current car can do, then they are not an Electric Car.

[bogan]

I am all for Electric Vehicles, but until they can do all the things my current car can do, then they are not an Electric Tourer.

Learn to use your words.

And there is still the possibility of a physical battery swap for those willing to pay a little more to get super quick pit-stops.

[TheDemonLord]

Learn to use your words.

And there is still the possibility of a physical battery swap for those willing to pay a little more to get super quick pit-stops.

Words, Schmords - I am being lazy.

Why would I pay more for a convenience that currently I am able to enjoy at no extra charge (pun fully intended)?

[bogan]

Words, Schmords - I am being lazy.

Why would I pay more for a convenience that currently I am able to enjoy at no extra charge (pun fully intended)?

More than the guys who wait for their batts to charge, still a whole lot less than juiced dinosaurs.

[Naki Rat]

Thats all well and good if I want to spend 15-30 minutes at a location, but what if I don't? now the Electric vehicle is forcing me to change my travel habits, With a Petrol vehicle I can choose to spend 15-30 minutes or 5 minutes, How long I spend is determined only by me, not the vehicle I drive.

I am all for Electric Vehicles, but until they can do all the things my current car can do, then they are not an Electric Car.

Recharging at your home or (probably) workplace will be the norm very early on in the uptake of EVs, with top ups at public facilities just adding extra range flexibility if required. It just takes a shift of mindset to think about recharging an EV in the same way as you do your cellphone or cordless power tools. Being tied to refills from petrol stations soon becomes as foreign to an EV owner as lugging extension cords around to run your electric drill probably does to you now.

There's also a very satisfying feeling in 'filling your tank' from a home socket, especially when that electricity is being generated from sunlight by your own PV

[Flip]

This my LPG V8 landrover.

On a fuel card I pay about $1/litre so its relatively low cost to drive around in.

Because its a Landrover it has a low enviromental footprint.

[Big Dog]

CNG was a wasted opportunity! I had my 1980 Marina on it. Cost $7.00 to fill! The Marina had the later 1700 alloy head OHC engine and ran beautifully on the gas.

The issues for the fuel were power, range, weight, the high pressure cylinder and boot space. However these could be largely overcome with dedicated CNG vehicles and tuning.

Diesel engines ran fantastically on CNG because of the high compression and a couple of bus companies ran their buses on it. Much quieter and cleaner!

None of the trinity you malign are a problem in a 'coon!
I only had twin tanks, a friend had tri tanks. Both ex taxi. Both fitted out by ford pre delivery so also had manual ratio diffs, stiffer springs all round and better shocks.
His also had a 4 stage after maker trans but he only got the same mileage (he just got 1/3 more range) as me so meh.
I could still fit two adult people in the boot well enough room to sleep in there when parked with the boot up.
Or as car salesmen would put, seating for six and room for seven sets of golf clubs.
The tanks weren't any riskier than 70l of high octane so long as everything is properly maintained.

The mighty 4.1 pulled overloaded tandems many times.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Recharging at your home or (probably) workplace will be the norm very early on in the uptake of EVs, with top ups at public facilities just adding extra range flexibility if required. It just takes a shift of mindset to think about recharging an EV in the same way as you do your cellphone or cordless power tools. Being tied to refills from petrol stations soon becomes as foreign to an EV owner as lugging extension cords around to run your electric drill probably does to you now.

There's also a very satisfying feeling in 'filling your tank' from a home socket, especially when that electricity is being generated from sunlight by your own PV

Not a great analogy.
Trademe is riddled with cordless tools that seemed like a good idea at the time but now battery maintenance requirements mean the tool is useless. Especially for the light user.

If it is doing any real work and I won't be using it every week I prefer cords or air. My only exception is my drill. Even then heavy duty goes to a corded drill.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[bogan]

Not a great analogy.
Trademe is riddled with cordless tools that seemed like a good idea at the time but now battery maintenance requirements mean the tool is useless. Especially for the light user.

If it is doing any real work and I won't be using it every week I prefer cords or air. My only exception is my drill. Even then heavy duty goes to a corded drill.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

Na that is a pretty good analogy, or do you think there will be no issues with cheap/shit batteries on EVs?

Cordless have caught up with corded drills in torque for all but the most wrist snappingest of jobs. You'd still use a corded for repeditive production jobs that are done many times per day though.