Black boxes on bikes?

[R650R]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/we...tness-tracking

"They worry that wearables will be used as "black boxes" for a person's body in legal matters. Three years ago, after a San Francisco cyclist struck and killed a 71-year-old pedestrian, prosecutors obtained his data from Strava, a GPS-enabled fitness tracker, to show he had been speeding and blew through several stop signs before the accident."

[Akzle]

the internet of things


for your convinience

[caspernz]

Yet another compelling reason to travel with the cell phone switched off.

When out on the bike, and straying a little over the odds on occasion...yes absolutely valid way of thinking.

Nice bunch of cunts you work for.

What was he charge with? I take it was some thing criminal.

If you're trucking along with a GPS tracker, best your logbook match what you do. Modern trucking 101.

[R650R]

Whilst you are right (spoke with someone in the know), and there is nothing to stop the police issuing an order demanding the data be released, it is a phone app. It doesn't monitor the driver, amongst many other factors, so it's far from condeming.

It's all rather acedemic for bikes anyway, the whole point is monitoring how smoothly you accellerate and decellerate etc. Even an asthmatic 250 typically accellerates at speeds the app would consider excessive, and therefore mark you down on.

Yes I agree. But in court a series of questions from decent prosecutor will establish that the accused owns the device and therefore the device present is/was recording their actions.
All I'm trying to get across to people is that these devices from trackers/phones gopro can all help send your virgin arse to prison in right circumstances so best to be cautious in there use and not use them to argue with cops a few km'h on speed ticket.

[R650R]

Nice bunch of cunts you work for.

What was he charge with? I take it was some thing criminal.

Used to, I've moved up now to someone more reputable.
But in saying that the company and driver concerned wasn't really doing much different to everyone else out there.

To cut a long story short over 300 separate occasions where the electronic data didn't match up with the drivers location records, fuel station time receipts, and also speed limits.
As they only picked out one driver from a medium size company one can conclude their probable cause was when he told a cop he had gps in truck and tried to argue a 2km/h difference in speed ticket.
While it only truckers being targeted by the electronic matrix at the moment all this crap will land on car drivers and bikers soon too.
Just want people to realise these fancy gadgets can be your undoing so easy, use with caution if you have fun on the roads from time to time...

[baffa]

Yes I agree. But in court a series of questions from decent prosecutor will establish that the accused owns the device and therefore the device present is/was recording their actions.
All I'm trying to get across to people is that these devices from trackers/phones gopro can all help send your virgin arse to prison in right circumstances so best to be cautious in there use and not use them to argue with cops a few km'h on speed ticket.

Not really. Say there is a hit and run, and a vehicle matching the description of mine was seen fleeing from the scene, yes potentially they could requesition the data, but this is making a huge assumption that they would even know the app was recording.
I could waltz into court, and claim the vehicle had been borrowed/stolen or whatever. If they cannot prove I was driving (anyone can use my phone or walk into my house and grab my car keys), they cannot take any action, even if they can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it was my vehicle.

To be fair, in such scenarios you are actually worried about, (remember police dont investigate minor matters, only where injuries have been sustained or charges will occur) You'd be a dick for thinking about saving your own skin, and deserve any penalty levied at you.

[Flip]

Used to, I've moved up now to someone more reputable.
But in saying that the company and driver concerned wasn't really doing much different to everyone else out there.

To cut a long story short over 300 separate occasions where the electronic data didn't match up with the drivers location records, fuel station time receipts, and also speed limits.
As they only picked out one driver from a medium size company one can conclude their probable cause was when he told a cop he had gps in truck and tried to argue a 2km/h difference in speed ticket.
While it only truckers being targeted by the electronic matrix at the moment all this crap will land on car drivers and bikers soon too.
Just want people to realise these fancy gadgets can be your undoing so easy, use with caution if you have fun on the roads from time to time...

I used to work for a bunch of drop kicks who installed tracking in the work vehicles. I either used fuck with the thing all the time, the poor cunt in the office could not understand why my ute used to go places at 200+ kph and sometimes just dissapear off the face of the earth.

[R650R]

Not really. Say there is a hit and run, and a vehicle matching the description of mine was seen fleeing from the scene, yes potentially they could requesition the data, but this is making a huge assumption that they would even know the app was recording.
I could waltz into court, and claim the vehicle had been borrowed/stolen or whatever. If they cannot prove I was driving (anyone can use my phone or walk into my house and grab my car keys), they cannot take any action, even if they can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it was my vehicle.

To be fair, in such scenarios you are actually worried about, (remember police dont investigate minor matters, only where injuries have been sustained or charges will occur) You'd be a dick for thinking about saving your own skin, and deserve any penalty levied at you.

So let me get this straight:
You end up involved in a hit and run, fatal or critical injuries.
Now the police have enough intel to suspect its you and in your own words can 'prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it was your vehicle'. Now what comes next is different from your fantasyland version.
They will seize all potential evidence... they will interview the neighbours, family, friends/work colleagues and ascertaion who was likely using the vehicle. Given that your defence is that anyone can borrow your phone or car at any time they will no doubt ask everyone else how often this happens. They will interview you at length and all the obvious holes in such a story will show themselves up very quickly.

All in all a very hypothetical situation you've portrayed that even in hypothetical fairy tale land still wouldn't hold water.

[baffa]

So let me get this straight:
You end up involved in a hit and run, fatal or critical injuries.
Now the police have enough intel to suspect its you and in your own words can 'prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it was your vehicle'. Now what comes next is different from your fantasyland version.
They will seize all potential evidence... they will interview the neighbours, family, friends/work colleagues and ascertaion who was likely using the vehicle. Given that your defence is that anyone can borrow your phone or car at any time they will no doubt ask everyone else how often this happens. They will interview you at length and all the obvious holes in such a story will show themselves up very quickly.

All in all a very hypothetical situation you've portrayed that even in hypothetical fairy tale land still wouldn't hold water.

Two things.
1. I am talking about a simple phone app used to obtain discount on insurance. Nothing attached to the phone. The chances the police would be aware of this app, let alone think to look for the data is pretty insignificant.

2. I wouldnt run. Ever. And those that do deserve the book thrown at them. I speed on a regular basis. If I get caught or cause an accident as a result, I accept this and move on.

PS: Years ago I had a friend who was involved in a minor hit and run using an old vehicle of mine. Police couldnt prove who was driving, but my friend was good enough to realise I didnt want that cloud hanging over me so put his hand up. If he hadnt no charges could have been laid, as it has to have been established beyond reasonable doubt who was driving.

[Dave-]

So hang on, GPS is accurate enough to prosecute you with? But not accurate enough to use as a defense?

[jonnyk5614]

The black boxes currently on cars record the speed at which the airbags were set off, i.e. the accident speed. That is how cops currently work out how fast we were going when we crashed.

So for bikes, no airbags therefore no black box - sweet. Also, if we've crashed, we've got other things on our mind....


The EU however is worried sick about us though and as a service to all of their dear residents, they are mandating that all new cars (and so far, it says "cars & light vans") be fitted with a technology called eCall.
This harmless device automatically contacts the police, over the mobile network, if you have a crash giving them the following details: Vehicle Type, Fuel Used, Time of Accident and Location.


So just to clarify, a device fitted with SIM card autonomously provides location and time information to the police. Should I be worried?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32495058

[caspernz]

So just to clarify, a device fitted with SIM card autonomously provides location and time information to the police. Should I be worried?

No need to worry, anything that works in Europe when it comes to road safety related matters, will definitely not work in NZ. But anything the Aussies try...watch out!

[rambaldi]

I endorsement and a job as a motorcycle instructor.

I'm thinking of getting a camera to provide feedback to punters but is all this Go Pro BS getting out of hand? So many of us seem to be videoing stuff for some purpose then grizzling when it drops us in the shit.

I did some advanced scuba training and all our dives for that were recorded. We ran through the footage afterwards looking at the skills we got right and what we got wrong, lots of tips to improve things and then the vids were deleted afterwards. I was pretty happy with that process, found it quite useful so I would say go for it.

Might be more of an issue on the bike as you would want to make sure the camera is always looking in the right spot, on the dive course we actually had an extra instructor that was doing the filming.

Definitely useful though; being able to see how much I improved over the days on film, when in person it felt like I was just getting more and more things wrong.

[mossy1200]

I remember seeing some news that with digital speedos they are able to work out what speed was being done by a vehicle prior to impact.

If your thick enough to point your gopro at your speedo this could be correct. Apparently easier to obtain the results if you post on youtube and facebook.

[nzspokes]

Used to, I've moved up now to someone more reputable.
But in saying that the company and driver concerned wasn't really doing much different to everyone else out there.

To cut a long story short over 300 separate occasions where the electronic data didn't match up with the drivers location records, fuel station time receipts, and also speed limits.
As they only picked out one driver from a medium size company one can conclude their probable cause was when he told a cop he had gps in truck and tried to argue a 2km/h difference in speed ticket.
While it only truckers being targeted by the electronic matrix at the moment all this crap will land on car drivers and bikers soon too.
Just want people to realise these fancy gadgets can be your undoing so easy, use with caution if you have fun on the roads from time to time...

What would be cool would be cameras in the cabs of trucks. So they can see when the driver takes a piss in a coke bottle then pours it out the window. All class.