Integrated mirrors/running lights/indicators?

**jezza1983** · 13th June 2015, 23:26

Does anyone know if you can have a regular headlight and indicators then add rear view mirrors that have integrated running lights and indicators? nzta seems to have conflicting information that you can only have 1 set of front and rear indicators and running lights must go off during night time (even though you have to have lights on during the day..??)
Looking at these...
http://rivcoproducts.com/shop-by-cat...-pat-pend.html

**Gremlin** · 14th June 2015, 01:23

Direction Indicator Lamps:
No, you can have 1 or 2 pairs front, same for rear. Summary of legislation here (see third tab): http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.n...ndicator-lamps

Running Lamps:
I presume you mean Daytime Running lamps as there is no category "running lights". Requirement (at least currently in VIRM, which is what WOF inspectors follow) is that a daytime running lamp does not operate when a headlamp operates... and headlamps operating 24/7 are now mandatory for modern motorcycles (as with many rules there is a historical exemption, not sure of year cut off). I believe there may be changes afoot here, as effectively, now most motorcycles can't use daytime running lamps.

**R650R** · 14th June 2015, 08:12

There is a whole thread about it here, fairly recent discussion near end.

What I run is ahem prob technically illegal but I don't ride in a manner to attract police attention to start with. On rare occasions I get a headlight flick from the odd uppity car driver, some peoples eyes are sensitive to the intensity of LEDs. I'd rather have the extra visibility and risk ticket in the interim until the ltsa comes up with solution.
Funny thing is some bikes have pretty much what I have but fitted from factory, often if stuff is there at first WOF its legal for that vehicles lifetime.
But just look at all these ... on Fords and HSV holdens running around with their foglights on all the time which can be quite annoying as they are so low and you never hear of them being ticketed.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-running-lamps

**nzspokes** · 14th June 2015, 08:21

Originally Posted by R650R

There is a whole thread about it here, fairly recent discussion near end.

What I run is ahem prob technically illegal but I don't ride in a manner to attract police attention to start with. On rare occasions I get a headlight flick from the odd uppity car driver, some peoples eyes are sensitive to the intensity of LEDs. I'd rather have the extra visibility and risk ticket in the interim until the ltsa comes up with solution.
Funny thing is some bikes have pretty much what I have but fitted from factory, often if stuff is there at first WOF its legal for that vehicles lifetime.
But just look at all these ... on Fords and HSV holdens running around with their foglights on all the time which can be quite annoying as they are so low and you never hear of them being ticketed.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-running-lamps

This I agree. I would rather be safe than legal. My extra LEDs have stopped most random pull outs in front of me.

**pete376403** · 14th June 2015, 09:58

Are DRLs necessarily a white light? i.e. my old Suzuki has dual filament bulbs in the front indicators, so there is a pair of amber lights on all the time along with the headlight. Its been that way since 1982

**Gremlin** · 14th June 2015, 13:55

Originally Posted by pete376403

Are DRLs necessarily a white light? i.e. my old Suzuki has dual filament bulbs in the front indicators, so there is a pair of amber lights on all the time along with the headlight. Its been that way since 1982

There is allowance under regs for factory fitted (and effectively complied) equipment. Some stuff you can't retrofit, but if it was OEM, then you're sweet.

**MarkH** · 14th June 2015, 17:32

Originally Posted by Gremlin

Some stuff you can't retrofit

Of course you can, probably (as long as you don't run into an arsehole cop) get away with it too.
I'm planning on replacing my front indicators (integrated on the mirrors) on my ST with clear lenses and flashback LEDs. I'll have to change the socket to a 3 wire one (similar to what all USA ST1300s have as standard) and connect one of the wires to a wire that goes live with the ignition/headlights. This will give me extra lights that should make my bike more visible, I'm hoping that this wont attract unwanted legal attention and will just make me a little safer.

Here's a short vid showing how the flashback LEDs work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0htip4xxrW8
Basically they give white light until you turn on the indicators, then the light goes out and they flash orange, when you turn off the indicator they stop flashing and go back to white light.
I like the idea of extra lights with no extra bits hanging off the bike, simply converting the indicators to dual purpose items.

**Gremlin** · 14th June 2015, 17:54

Originally Posted by MarkH

Of course you can, probably (as long as you don't run into an arsehole cop) get away with it too.

Well yeah, I meant you can't do it legally...

**RDJ** · 14th June 2015, 18:00

Originally Posted by nzspokes

This I agree. I would rather be safe than legal. My extra LEDs have stopped most random pull outs in front of me.

Yes. I have Clearwater 'Darla' lights fitted to both the 350 and 502 and they add considerably to 'visibility' - the standard LTSA approved headlight which is on all the time, looks literally pale orange in comparison. I also have ADV-sourced MondoMoto lights on the Vrod and Dyna and they do the same for those bikes.

The traffic police may - probably will - fine me one day, but increasing the chances of staying out of a hospital bed due to a dormant cellphone-texting SMIDSY is preferred.

**Erelyes** · 14th June 2015, 21:39

Originally Posted by Gremlin

Requirement (at least currently in VIRM, which is what WOF inspectors follow) is that a daytime running lamp does not operate when a headlamp operates... and headlamps operating 24/7 are now mandatory for modern motorcycles (as with many rules there is a historical exemption, not sure of year cut off). I believe there may be changes afoot here, as effectively, now most motorcycles can't use daytime running lamps.

I respectfully disagree.
The rule says that either headlamps OR DRLs may be used.

This subclause applies to the driver of a moped or motorcycle manufactured on or after 1 January 1980. The driver other than during the hours of darkness must use the moped's or motorcycle's headlamps or, if fitted, the moped's or motorcycle's daytime running lamps.

**jezza1983** · 15th June 2015, 10:34

So I heard back from VTNZ and thought I'd share their response below...

Typically the light rule takes a little to get your head around which is why it is so often misunderstood. Even Vehicle Inspectors and Police struggle with it.

From your description they lamps in the mirrors are what we would call position lamps rather that daytime running lamps. They may be able to be daytime runners but they would need to switch off when the headlamps were turned on.
As there is a limit of 2 position lamps on the front of a bike you may need to disconnect either them or the one in the headlamp.
They are actually position lamps and need to be treated as such (can go at will).
On the other hand the indicators are probably OK as you are allowed two pairs front, side and rear.

Hope this clears it up a little for anyone else. I'm a bit confused about the part where it says you may have to disconnect them or the one in the headlamp. Is a headlight also considered a position light then!?

**RDJ** · 15th June 2015, 10:43

It is pretty difficult to plumb the depths of bureaucratic confusion...

I have integrated turn signals in the Harley's mirrors which light orange to the front... have had them for about three years. I can't see any logical or substantive regulatory difference between these, and the many trucks which roam our highways with bushels of orange lights to the front and sides... for example http://www.xtrucking.co.nz/sites/def.../goddess-1.jpg

**Tazz** · 15th June 2015, 13:25

You can have them for sure.

You can also call them different things for however you want to wire them as there is no specifics mentioned (afaik) for size and output of any of the light types. Work lamps and fog lamps are the most relaxed two, but as advised in the email you're best to call those positioning lamps as you can leave them on all the time without 'dazzling' other drivers.

10.7 Fitting and performance requirements for work lamps

10.7(1) A motor vehicle of Class LC, LD or LE, or of Group M, N or T, or an unclassified motor vehicle, may be fitted with one or more work lamps.

10.7(2) The light emitted from a work lamp must be substantially white or amber.

10.7(3) A motor vehicle of Class AB, LA or LB must not be fitted with a work lamp.

Work lamp
means a high intensity lamp, which is not necessary for the operation of the vehicle but is designed to illuminate a work area or scene; and includes:
(a) a scene lamp; and
(b) a spot lamp; and
(c) an alley lamp.

2.1(9) A work lamp fitted to a vehicle does not have to be maintained in sound condition and good working order.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/ru...ting-2004.html

**Gremlin** · 15th June 2015, 14:48

Originally Posted by jezza1983

So I heard back from VTNZ and thought I'd share their response below...

Typically the light rule takes a little to get your head around which is why it is so often misunderstood. Even Vehicle Inspectors and Police struggle with it.

From your description they lamps in the mirrors are what we would call position lamps rather that daytime running lamps. They may be able to be daytime runners but they would need to switch off when the headlamps were turned on.
As there is a limit of 2 position lamps on the front of a bike you may need to disconnect either them or the one in the headlamp.
They are actually position lamps and need to be treated as such (can go at will).
On the other hand the indicators are probably OK as you are allowed two pairs front, side and rear.

Hope this clears it up a little for anyone else. I'm a bit confused about the part where it says you may have to disconnect them or the one in the headlamp. Is a headlight also considered a position light then!?

Just to clarify further, due to the way the rules are written, you call a lamp xyz (ie, a type under the law) then that's what it is, and it must comply with all aspects. So if someone called one of my lights a daytime running lamp, and I called it a forward facing position lamp, then that's what it is, as long as it meets those requirements. There is a lot of crossover between lamp types (ie, the confusion).

The fact that they call park lamps a position lamp is bullshit, my manual (from factory) calls it a park lamp and they say motorcycles may not be fitted with a park lamp... so call it a position lamp (which is actually against the laws which state they should help demonstrate the outline of the motorcycle, ie, out to the sides not the centre) but good luck trying to tell them that (I tried). I then fell foul of the law as I actually have two position lamps...

Headlamp isn't a position lamp, it's a headlamp. Section 4-1 of Motorcycles in VIRM: http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.n...ting/headlamps

**baffa** · 15th June 2015, 15:20

I had a VTR250 that automatically turned on the front indicators whenever the headlight on (eg, whenever it was running)
I liked the extra orange light, it didnt exactly help light up the road, but it gave road presence. Being factory, I never had an issue with the law or wofs.

I recently fitted some mirrors with indicators in them, and didnt bother taking off the stock indicators, so the current bike has dual front indicators which is kind of amusing. I'd love to make them run with the headlight too. I'd light up like a truck