Black Sunday?

[Swoop]

I have a better idea. We should bubble wrap ourselves when riding.

That is a waste of plastic. A simple yellow vest is all that is required.
Perhaps glue an orange road cone to the PAX seat if you are REALLY paranoid.

I dont know how I will be at 67...

Keep trying sweetie. Your IQ level might reach that amount in the future.

Maybe....its time we started TEACHING people how to drive safely...instead of just TESTING what mommy/daddy & mates have passed on to the new road user.

Will you stop making sense!
Kiwi's are taught how to "pass the test" and that is the ONLY priority.

[AllanB]

here is a thought. Having recently purchased the fastest, best handling, best stopping bike I have ever owned. All that goodness tends to higher cornering speeds.


And I still haven't completely killed the chicken strips .......


So though the bike is technically safer (stops and corners better etc) if I encounter a mid corner buttock puckering moment like a sheep on the road or a tourist van stopped to take pictures I may well be carrying a higher corner speed........ more mess.

Being aware of this shit is probably why the chicken strips have not completely disappeared. Well it is one of the better excuses I have seen for some time.

[awa355]

As Jay Leno once said: Driving (or riding bikes perhaps) is like sex. Every men thinks they are good at it.

Or as Stirling Moss said, "Two things most men will never admit they are no good at, making love and driving cars".

[Daffyd]

Or as Stirling Moss said, "Two things most men will never admit they are no good at, making love and driving cars".

A brilliant man whose career was cut off all too soon. As someone else said, "The best driver in the world to have never won an F1 championship."

[Frodo]

Statistics and lies?

I think the most authoritative study in the tourist drivers in NZ is: "Statistical analysis of tourist crashes in southern New Zealand" prepared for Otago and Southland Regional Councils, April 2015.
While these stats focus on the southern South Island, this is where there are more tourist drivers (and where I'll be riding in two weeks).

Key findings are:

• Comparative to all districts in New Zealand, Southland and Clutha Districts have experienced a relatively high rate of casualties per head of population (consistently between 60 and 79 per 10,000 population, over these four years. The number of tourist crashes occurring in these districts is a major contributor to this statistic.
• The number of tourist crashes in southern New Zealand stayed relatively constant over the four years 2010-2013 inclusive, without a noticeable increase or decrease.
• Tourist crashes tend not to be any more or less severe, on average, than local crashes.
• Tourist crashes in all southern districts disproportionately involve unfamiliarity with New Zealand road rules/road conditions.
• Tourist crashes do tend to be associated with a failure to adjust to New Zealand road rules and/or road conditions; that is, they often crash in situations where local New Zealand drivers probably would not.
• Tourist crashes in all southern districts except for Central Otago disproportionately involve younger adults aged 25-34 years old.
• Tourists crash often on gravel roads in Southland, Clutha and Waitaki districts.

We recommend that efforts to reduce the level of serious road trauma caused or suffered by tourist drivers in southern New Zealand concentrate on:
- improving tourist drivers’ knowledge of New Zealand road conditions and road rules
- teaching tourist drivers how to drive on gravel roads: targeting drivers aged 25 to 34 years, in particular, and/or sealing roads commonly used by tourists
-improving safety along SH 94 (which involves more than road engineering; attention should also be paid to reducing fatigue and improving concentration, for example).

My take: tourists do have higher accident rates (at least in the southern SI). However, if you're going to be taken out by a driver, this is probably more likely to be due to a local driver simply because there are more locals on the roads (with the exception of roads such as the Milford Road).
On the other hand, while I have a reasonable chance of avoiding a car that, say, pulls out in front of me, I have little chance of avoiding a vehicle on the wrong side of the road in a corner. I have found no stats on this, but I reckon that tourists are more likely to be cause of this.

And will any of this stop me from going on my planned 8-day ride around the South Island starting in 10 days? Heck no!

[Berries]

I think the most authoritative study in the tourist drivers in NZ is: "Statistical analysis of tourist crashes in southern New Zealand" prepared for Otago and Southland Regional Councils, April 2015.

There is this report as well which might be of interest - Visitor drivers in Otago and Southland.

My take: tourists do have higher accident rates (at least in the southern SI). However, if you're going to be taken out by a driver, this is probably more likely to be due to a local driver simply because there are more locals on the roads (with the exception of roads such as the Milford Road).
On the other hand, while I have a reasonable chance of avoiding a car that, say, pulls out in front of me, I have little chance of avoiding a vehicle on the wrong side of the road in a corner. I have found no stats on this, but I reckon that tourists are more likely to be cause of this.

And will any of this stop me from going on my planned 8-day ride around the South Island starting in 10 days? Heck no!

Not a bad assumption, and I would not let it ruin your ride down south. Just remember there are a lot of tourists down here, some of them do dumb shit, just don't get wound up, laugh at them and ride on. Treat the locals the same and chances are you will be fine.

[Old Steve]

I dont know how I will be at 67 but I would think a 270 kg bike would be a bit on the heavy side for someone that age as the heavier they are the less easy they are to corner on especialy cruisers. My pick and I do own one now if I was your age would be an adventure bike as they handle lighter than a road bike/cruiser for the same size motor. The only drawback with them is they do have tall seats which limit the number of people who can ride them.

Well, take it from me:

1. 270 kg cruiser isn't a problem, with a cruiser the c of g is much lower than a sports or adventure bike so it is easier to lean the bike (though it needs to lean more than a higher c of g sports bike for the same corner) and the handlebars are much wider so you actually need less effort to move them (torque equals force times distance).

2. I'm a bit - well, very much - challenged in the internal leg measurement, so a cruiser is it. I rode a Honda ST1100 for a couple of years in Oz and it's a very high bike and only the balls of my feet could touch the ground. Much happier back on the cruiser.

3. I would assume that an adventure bike would have a more powerful engine, my choice of a cruiser is made with my skill level in mind and I ride to those limitations. That's my choice, other people may be happier with a more powerful/lighter higher performance bike but I'm happy as I am.

[pete376403]

Well, take it from me:

3. I would assume that an adventure bike would have a more powerful engine, my choice of a cruiser is made with my skill level in mind and I ride to those limitations. That's my choice, other people may be happier with a more powerful/lighter higher performance bike but I'm happy as I am.

My KLR ("adventure bike") puts out a shattering 39HP (measured at the advertising brochure), so, nah, not really. It is pretty tall, though.

[Moise]

here is a thought. Having recently purchased the fastest, best handling, best stopping bike I have ever owned. All that goodness tends to higher cornering speeds.


And I still haven't completely killed the chicken strips .......


So though the bike is technically safer (stops and corners better etc) if I encounter a mid corner buttock puckering moment like a sheep on the road or a tourist van stopped to take pictures I may well be carrying a higher corner speed........ more mess.

Being aware of this shit is probably why the chicken strips have not completely disappeared. Well it is one of the better excuses I have seen for some time.

Not sure where you live, but a ride around Coromandel should fix the chicken strip issue. Worked for me anyway ...

[Tazz]

Exactly... Which is why I said in the first place, Do riders need to look in the mirror and ask that person, "Do I have the skills and the reactions necessary to safely ride this bike in any road conditions?"

Why have you left out the rest your quote which is relevant to what you have quoted me saying? Sneaky :P

Since you still mention the bike in there, my argument remains the same. The 'bike' has nothing to do with it, it's all on the rider and a rider can make a bad decision on ANY bike, in a nutshell.

Your quote above the way I read is is outright asking whether a rider should be riding at all. If that's your vein aren't you in fact questioning the licensing and training systems in place? Because that has nothing to do with the bike. If you can't ride a bike in the rain, at night, through road works etc (varying conditions) then you won't (or at least shouldn't) have a license or you need to be taking advantage of some of the subsidised 'Ride Forever' courses, imo.

[Daffyd]

Why have you left out the rest your quote which is relevant to what you have quoted me saying? Sneaky :P

Since you still mention the bike in there, my argument remains the same. The 'bike' has nothing to do with it, it's all on the rider and a rider can make a bad decision on ANY bike, in a nutshell.

Your quote above the way I read is is outright asking whether a rider should be riding at all. If that's your vein aren't you in fact questioning the licensing and training systems in place? Because that has nothing to do with the bike. If you can't ride a bike in the rain, at night, through road works etc (varying conditions) then you won't (or at least shouldn't) have a license or you need to be taking advantage of some of the subsidised 'Ride Forever' courses, imo.

I left out the rest of the quote because I wanted to emphasize The part that I quoted again.

I think we might be at cross purposes here, but in a way agreeing on most points. The others, well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[RDJ]

For example, riders of my generation got a full motorbike licence by answering a few questions and then doing a short ride while the traffic officer (remember them?) watched from the footpath.

Ah, them wuz the daze. Day I turned 15 I I borrowed a friend's Vespa (my off-road bike was unroadworthy) and took my test on the steepest hill anyone knew of back then, off Mt Eden Road (can't remember the name of the street but near the Hillsborough end).

Turned up wearing a helmet, in those days that was unusual. Apparently. Didn't start well, left handlebar mounted gearshift came adrift and required fixing while the officer patiently waited. Then I was told to start it up, turn it off, do a hill start (facing uphill, natch), do a U-turn before I got out of sight, come back and park diagonally. A short ride, but interesting challenges haha. And then I was 'qualified' at age 15 to mix it with the Auckland commuter traffic to and from school from Blockhouse Bay to Epsom...

[RDJ]

There is this report as well which might be of interest - Visitor drivers in Otago and Southland.


Not a bad assumption, and I would not let it ruin your ride down south. Just remember there are a lot of tourists down here, some of them do dumb shit, just don't get wound up, laugh at them and ride on. Treat the locals the same and chances are you will be fine.

That's interesting information. I've scanned the forum but couldn't find this question answered elsewhere...

There is clearly a perception aided and abetted by the news media that foreign tourist drivers are more likely to cause crashes than the average New Zealand driver.

But surely (okay, I won't call you shirley), and maybe the statisticians on the forum can help out here; for that to be proven, one way or the other, we'd need to know a benchmark like for example, the mileage per day that a tourist drives compared to the Kiwi; so we can compare accident risks for the time on the road. Or maybe the percentage of tourists making up the population on the road at any given time; if say they represent 8% of all crashes down south but 10% of all drivers on the road, that would mean they are safer than us, would it? But heck, I barely scraped a C- pass in Statistics when it was a mandatory part of my uni course...

[Moi]

Ah, them wuz the daze. Day I turned 15 I I borrowed a friend's Vespa (my off-road bike was unroadworthy) and took my test on the steepest hill anyone knew of back then, off Mt Eden Road (can't remember the name of the street but near the Hillsborough end)...

Landscape Road?

[Moise]

Yeah, that would be it. The council cops were based in the building near the corner of Mt Albert and Mt Eden Roads.