Tactics

[XRNR]

Well...
Being a bit on the thick side, and no matter how many times I got told not to do naughty things I just couldn't help it.

Speeding is no exception, & it appears that many of us here are blessed with the same affliction.

I think a bit of a group discussion about protective measures, tactics, etc are in order. I have already perused the radar thing & got the box ticked with that one, even if coldkiwi had to go & upset me on that. (Spud did warn tho...).

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Request for comment:
If a group of motorcycles is travelling together as a group (same speed), at a speed greater than the prescribed limit, & they are spotted by Mr Plod & pursued.

What does the law require Mr Plod to do?

What I am wondering is: If one of the group stop & the others continue & separate as roads allow or requirement permits. Is the law such that all must be apprehended & given a ticket? or just one? & what decisions would the officer likely take?

I am interested in this scenario when riding as a group. Is it prudent to organise a fall-guy for each group ride-out. Based upon what ever criteria the group picks e.g.: (the person with the least demerit points, draws the short straw, or his turn to be). This person will be the one to stop & the others know that they are to hightail-it & pick a different side road etc. Then after 5-10mins call the others, meet up & carry on with the ride.

Is this likely to offer some protection, or be a waste of time?

Most interested to hear from,
Spudchucka
Marty
Lou G
Qwaka-Kid

Or others who have a DDI to the road God's.
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[merv]

Could our newbie Zed have a word to his Boss and get him to sort the Police out and tell them to stop picking on us nice law abiding devout motorcyclists, or talk to the politicians and get the laws changed so speeding per se isn't a crime?

[Lou Girardin]

He'll be struggling to book anyone, he has to identify which vehicle/vehicles were speeding. The crucial thing is that everyone stops, not leave one guy on his own with the cop. If he was stupid enough to try this, hopefully your mates will appear as defence witnesses. Don't try this with only two bikes, I've seen succesful prosecutions of two drivers at the same time.
Lou

[750Y]

if you all stop, then you will all get done & make the cop's day. he will have bragging rights back at the station. he'll probably go back to the mrs that night & give her one.

[Jackrat]

When I rode with a club we would pick who ever was the most legal to stop and then the club would pay the guys fine.In them days there were no points and a few of our guys had no licence to lose anyway.
I seldom ride with other riders now days but the few times each year that it doe's happen I stay at the back,I mean way back,This way I can still travel at my own speed but it's the guys who think they are fast that get pinged.
I have a mate who is Highway patrol down by Taupo,He has writen up a whole group that stopped,For those that did'nt stop he just radioed ahead.

[Lou Girardin]

Yeah that's fine, but did any of them defend it?
Lou

[DEATH_INC.]

I believe he can 'estimate' your speed (I've lost my licence in the past this way... )so he could simply say he's estimated the whole group I guess......and I have tried fighting it and the cops always win .....

[Jackrat]

Yeah that's fine, but did any of them defend it?
Lou

I have no idea,Personly if I were in that position I would.
But back to the subject at hand,I try not to give them a reason in the first place and so far it has worked just fine.

[SPman]

Could our newbie Zed have a word to his Boss and get him to sort the Police out and tell them to stop picking on us nice law abiding devout motorcyclists, or talk to the politicians and get the laws changed so speeding per se isn't a crime?

Well, surely it would be his Christian duty to be tail end charlie and take the rap for all us Sinners!

[XRNR]

He'll be struggling to book anyone, he has to identify which vehicle/vehicles were speeding. The crucial thing is that everyone stops, not leave one guy on his own with the cop. If he was stupid enough to try this, hopefully your mates will appear as defence witnesses. Don't try this with only two bikes, I've seen succesful prosecutions of two drivers at the same time.
Lou

Is what your saying here:
If there are enough of you, take it to court & everyone tell the judge the cop is making it up (lying)?

If this is what your saying, I would feel abit uncomfortable about that. I suspect the judge would find in the (law upholding) policeman's favour rather than speed-freaking group of motorcycles that need protection from their own death wishes

[Lou Girardin]

One of the reqired elements for a prosecution is to positively identify the offender. I've seen a few fail just on that point. Besides it's one of our protections in the legal system. What do you think lawyers do? They're testing the prosecution case, trying to establish reasonable doubt. Not necessarily saying that the Police are lying.
The J P's in the district court may be excessively pro-Police, but even they can't ignore several corroborating witnesses.
Or, you can just pay your fine.
Lou

[spudchucka]

Well...
Being a bit on the thick side, and no matter how many times I got told not to do naughty things I just couldn't help it.

Speeding is no exception, & it appears that many of us here are blessed with the same affliction.

I think a bit of a group discussion about protective measures, tactics, etc are in order. I have already perused the radar thing & got the box ticked with that one, even if coldkiwi had to go & upset me on that. (Spud did warn tho...).

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Request for comment:
If a group of motorcycles is travelling together as a group (same speed), at a speed greater than the prescribed limit, & they are spotted by Mr Plod & pursued.

What does the law require Mr Plod to do?

What I am wondering is: If one of the group stop & the others continue & separate as roads allow or requirement permits. Is the law such that all must be apprehended & given a ticket? or just one? & what decisions would the officer likely take?

I am interested in this scenario when riding as a group. Is it prudent to organise a fall-guy for each group ride-out. Based upon what ever criteria the group picks e.g.: (the person with the least demerit points, draws the short straw, or his turn to be). This person will be the one to stop & the others know that they are to hightail-it & pick a different side road etc. Then after 5-10mins call the others, meet up & carry on with the ride.

Is this likely to offer some protection, or be a waste of time?

Most interested to hear from,
Spudchucka
Marty
Lou G
Qwaka-Kid

Or others who have a DDI to the road God's.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

A driver is required to stop for police when red & blue lights are activated by a following patrol vehicle, (can't remember exact wording but check a copy of the road code if you have one, it's in there).

If police were to activate red & blue lights behind a group of motorcyclists, only the vehicle immediately in front of the patrol vehicle could reasonably be expected to stop.

For instance, in a group of 20 or more bikes, how could the lead bike reasonably be expected to know that the police were wanting him to stop when they are 20 bikes back.

When biker gangs are spotted travelling in groups, check points are often organised ahead of them. That can often be the only way to stop them all in a group. The gangs know this and the often will have a prospect carrying their drugs or weapons for them when in transit. That way only the prospect will fall foul of the law, thats how they earn their patch.

[spudchucka]

I believe he can 'estimate' your speed (I've lost my licence in the past this way... )so he could simply say he's estimated the whole group I guess......and I have tried fighting it and the cops always win .....

Because of the nature of their work, cops are considered to be experts in certain areas and can give what is called "expert evidence". This is based on the opinion of the cop and is excepted by the court because of the frequency in which the cops deal with such matters.

Two of the areas cops are considered to be experts in are:

Speed & Sobriety.

[Lou Girardin]

That's true, but the circumstances are critical. It's easy to estimate a vehicles speed in the presence of other traffic. Much harder when it's a lone vehicle, poor vis, etc.
Lou