NZTA response to question about wire rope barriers.

[eldog]

Higher average incomes don't translate to higher disposable income.
It does seem to translate to more toys and more bribes for the kids.

I would agree that the majority of people working in AKL get paid more than the rest of the country.

It doesn't translate to higher disposable incomes, as there are higher living costs etc (distance to work and school costs etc)

More toys if you can afford them (I have to save) yeah the kids demand more.

its not like when I was growing a tennis ball, and a foot ball would do.
a bike was magic. I don't buy crap unless it's a once only item. So I buy the kiddies useful gifts if and when I think they deserve it.

[Big Dog]

So that is a yes, we do need them?

In this modern age they would be just as successful elsewhere.

A bit like my trumpet case only has value because it houses my trumpet.
But my trumpet would hold the same value in another case.

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[Big Dog]

The whole point of cities is to improve communication and reduce transport costs.
Modern era neither is a real concern.
Shipping goods 10,000kms another 150 is neither here nor there.
Phoning and emailing your neighbour is now no more cost effective than someone from say matamata.

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[eldog]

The whole point of cities is to improve communication and reduce transport costs.
Modern era neither is a real concern.
Shipping goods 10,000kms another 150 is neither here nor there.
Phoning and emailing your neighbour is now no more cost effective than someone from say matamata.

One of the larger employers in Matamata is moving to India (so I have been told)

One of my competitors is in the UK, that 10,000 ks is a long way when you are competing on $ and delivery time to the UK.

Modern communication has improved dramatically the speed of events, but has also reduced the ability for people to be loyal. People are far less loyal, they will buy crap and then complain to a local manufacturer about quality when it arrives.

NZTA is hiding its head in the sand regarding WRB and mbike accidents.
It is also using statistics to hide other stuff like road surface conditions when it suits.
Do they still disregard those who have been in accidents on holidays weekends and die AFTER the cut off time?

[eldog]

In this modern age they would be just as successful elsewhere.

A bit like my trumpet case only has value because it houses my trumpet.
But my trumpet would hold the same value in another case.

do you mean - we need the businesses in AKL, but they don't necessarily need to be located in AKL.

Will admit more rural people are able to apply themselves better to any problems.

[Big Dog]

do you mean - we need the businesses in AKL, but they don't necessarily need to be located in AKL.

Will admit more rural people are able to apply themselves better to any problems.

Bingo

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[Big Dog]

One of the larger employers in Matamata is moving to India (so I have been told)

One of my competitors is in the UK, that 10,000 ks is a long way when you are competing on $ and delivery time to the UK.

Modern communication has improved dramatically the speed of events, but has also reduced the ability for people to be loyal. People are far less loyal, they will buy crap and then complain to a local manufacturer about quality when it arrives.

NZTA is hiding its head in the sand regarding WRB and mbike accidents.
It is also using statistics to hide other stuff like road surface conditions when it suits.
Do they still disregard those who have been in accidents on holidays weekends and die AFTER the cut off time?

Nzta know the wrbs represent an increased risk to motorcycles but argued that the reduced speed and increased care exhibited in their presence effectively negated this risk when I asked them if they agreed motorcyclists were marginalised in favour of other motorists.

They also went on to further justify by stating that the reduced number of head ons is directly proportional to the amount of wrbs.

They also stated a barriers primary measure of effectiveness is in the injury or less of life to collateral parties and the art fault party is secondary. Hence the prevalence of wrb. Not cost.

They know.
The try to make the numbers stack up enough to keep us quiet. They evade official comment. But they know and have no intention of changing.

Think less ostrich and more dog with a bone.


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[eldog]

Nzta know the wrbs represent an increased risk to motorcycles but argued that the reduced speed and increased care exhibited in their presence effectively negated this risk when I asked them if they agreed motorcyclists were marginalised in favour of other motorists.

They know.
The try to make the numbers stack up enough to keep us quiet. They evade official comment. But they know and have no intention of changing.

Think less ostrich and more dog with a bone.

So the cost of death/injury to motorcyclist is irrelevant. Surely the cost to ACC would be reduced if we made them even add a lower rail to the existing system - do we all pay Regos.

I know they have no intent - just wait till one of their loved ones becomes a cropper and the public outcry....

Seemed to remember a number of head ons on the southern motorway resulted in the WRB being installed Manurewa-Bombay a few years back.

Come on it's not that expensive to add and the cost/benefit ratio would be great

[Big Dog]

The answer I got was that they would not be addressing that issue until all the planned works were done and then would address concerns where statistics supported a change.

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[eldog]

The answer I got was that they would not be addressing that issue until all the planned works were done and then would address concerns where statistics supported a change.

Write your own rules aye. Hide it under the carpet. They have been dodging the bullet, in case someone says hey lots of crashes here, it's gotta be speed, it's gotta be alcohol, it's gotta be drivers, never the road is crap design/surface or how can we make it safer for all users. We just do the minimum to suit our budget. Bend the statistics when we want to.

We need to get more information and bend it our way.

[Big Dog]

So the cost of death/injury to motorcyclist is irrelevant. Surely the cost to ACC would be reduced if we made them even add a lower rail to the existing system - do we all pay Regos.

I know they have no intent - just wait till one of their loved ones becomes a cropper and the public outcry....

Seemed to remember a number of head ons on the southern motorway resulted in the WRB being installed Manurewa-Bombay a few years back.

Come on it's not that expensive to add and the cost/benefit ratio would be great

PS the evidence of a 2 wheel track vehicle hitting the wire ropes in a significant way is present somewhere along the system almost every day. Takes an average of three weeks from new hole to repaired based on my travels not actual maths.
By my estimate those wrbs on that stretch alone keep the someone from opposing traffic at least once a month.
Also only my observation but I am surprised it is not more given how often people appear to be dozing along there.


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[Big Dog]

This is why I don't support either side.
They do a remarkable for 98 percent of the population. I just wish they were more transparent about their knowledge of the risk to the other 2 percent who own a motorcycle.
Be honest and say they have no record of injuries because no one has survived. I hope I am wrong on that front but I have never heard of anyone in nz surviving.
I have heard of survivors in Europe. But they were ones that did not actually fall off only struck a glancing blow.

Walking beside one I tore a boot open on one of the posts... I am pretty sure you could use those "soft posts" as a machete.

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[swbarnett]

Interesting that overseas countries use this.
wonder how the locals feel about that

It's just the way it works. And it seems to work well. The Swiss have a lot more say in how the council is run as well (they even get to vote on whether or not to approve the annual budget).

do they have the same geographical problems like AKL.
ie the majority of the population living in one area while the rest is mainly rural?

Switzerland is certainly more evenly spread than NZ but they do have the large population centers (around Zurich, Basel and Gevena). There are poor and rich councils. Where I lived was one of the "poorer" ones and they greatly appreciated my tax (it was above average for that region).

and do they use WRB?

I was there 20 years ago and they didn't have any then, don't know what it's like now. The Swiss know how to drive (and the public transport is so good that those that don't want to don't have to) so I would imagine the need is less than it is perceived to be here (they don't signpost tight bends like they do here, they just expect you to be able to judge the corner).

[swbarnett]

By my estimate those wrbs on that stretch alone keep the someone from opposing traffic at least once a month.

Crossing the center line, yes but what's to say that there was opposing traffic at the time?

[Big Dog]

Nought.

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