Braking, high speed low speed

**SimJen** · 5th October 2005, 09:05

Front brake only for 17+ years of riding. Mostly two fingers only too

I think it was Carl Fogarty who won 5 SBK Championships who said he never used a rear brake....something about a broken ankle that didn't work properly.
Mick Doohan used to ride with a rear thumb brake on the left bar (after he shagged his leg) but he mainly used it to calm the wheelspin in and out of corners.........

**Rashika** · 5th October 2005, 09:05

I have a slightly different view... but this is just my opinion okay

On the Buell (sports style...almost!) i have barely touched the back brake, I'm actually having to practice using it a bit so I learn where the hell it is....
but... on the Virago (cruiser style) I used the back brake way more than the front or at times both together the same amount. The back brake on the V always gave me much better and controlled braking... maybe the front was just not very effective?
Dunno, but your braking may well be a little bike dependent as well
A[part from that yep agree with all thats been said...go and practice, thats the best thing

And WELCOME to KB

and the mad chch chapter

**Monsterbishi** · 5th October 2005, 09:16

Originally Posted by el milanes

It depends on the weight ratio over the two wheels. It's wrong just using one of the two. I'd say you should progressively increase the pressure on the front brake the more the wheight is moving forward. http://pdmec4.mecc.unipd.it/~cos/DIN...raking_new.htm

Nice maths, but, alas, in the real world, it's a different story, how long have you been riding?

**dawnrazor** · 5th October 2005, 09:23

Same. I favour the front brake all the time, have the rear covered ibut generally only give it a tap in the wet at higher speeds.
In general I use the engine breaking to slow me down before corners etc, and the front to actually stop the bike or scrub off speed very quickly. The problem with braking to much before a corner is that you unsettle the bike and your progress through the corner is not smooth and progressive, as the suspension can still be returning the bike back to balance and loading and compression the springs. Al of which will effect the handling through the corner.
Engine braking, I love it - saves on pads and all, if you have ever folled a really good rider, you'll notice their brake light hardly ever comes on, and when it does ots to stop or a quick dab/

**Motu** · 5th October 2005, 09:24

Originally Posted by Rashika

on the Virago (cruiser style) I used the back brake way more than the front or at times both together the same amount. The back brake on the V always gave me much better and controlled braking... maybe the front was just not very effective?
:

Cruisers have a rear weight bias - check out the brakes on a Harley,the rear rotor is a larger diameter than the front,the rear brake does quite a bit of work on these bikes,it's not just the riders fault for using rear brake.Dirt bikes have more weight to the rear as well,but more weight transfer with the longer soft suspn.On a gravel road my rear brake is smoking,I use plenty of front brake,but the rear is doing more than just slow the bike.

**Rashika** · 5th October 2005, 09:31

Originally Posted by Motu

Cruisers have a rear weight bias - check out the brakes on a Harley,the rear rotor is a larger diameter than the front,the rear brake does quite a bit of work on these bikes,it's not just the riders fault for using rear brake.

ahh cool

so it was the right thing to be doing...glad cos i did it for 10 years!
And NOW (with the Buell) I totally understand when those sports riders talk about only using thr front mostly

**Str8 Jacket** · 5th October 2005, 09:48

Originally Posted by Deano

And brake on the straight before it's too late - (at least until you feel comfortable braking while cornering) - grabbing a handful of front or rear brake while tipping in to a corner is not recommended.

Yep, totally agree. I managed to write my first bike off (GN250) by coming round a corner, freaking out and just hammered my front brake, mostly cause I panicked, but to be honest I don't really remember too much about what I did and didn't do at the time. I did however remember that most if not all of the problem was that I had hammered the front brake, so in turn developed a HUUGE front brake phobia. When I got the KR I had to start making myself use it, especially since I have no engine braking.
I totally agree about slowing down BEFORE hitting the corner, you can always accelerate slighty if you have to. Sometimes I get embarrased about how slow I take corners now, but I think its best to learn/get used to how to take corners and when where to brake etc before giving it balls and f*cking it up!

**el milanes** · 5th October 2005, 10:09

Originally Posted by Monsterbishi

Nice maths, but, alas, in the real world, it's a different story, how long have you been riding?

I've heard this many many times.... but imho motorbikes are mechanical devices designed by engineers according to a model of reality, and I think the best way to use them is the way they have been designed for. Would you trust more facts or someone's feelings? I suppose both, it depends on experience I agree. I've had a 50cc scooter for 8 years, a 200cc beverly for a year and my actual bike for another year. I've fallen many times on my first scooter mainly because of the front wheel loosing grip. The very first day because I used the front brake in a corner. I find motorbikes much safer. But in Europe scooters are widely used.

**dawnrazor** · 5th October 2005, 14:49

Originally Posted by el milanes

I've heard this many many times.... but imho motorbikes are mechanical devices designed by engineers according to a model of reality, and I think the best way to use them is the way they have been designed for. Would you trust more facts or someone's feelings? I suppose both, it depends on experience I agree. I've had a 50cc scooter for 8 years, a 200cc beverly for a year and my actual bike for another year. I've fallen many times on my first scooter mainly because of the front wheel loosing grip. The very first day because I used the front brake in a corner. I find motorbikes much safer. But in Europe scooters are widely used.

the wheel size of scooters has alot to do with their instability, not necessarily the front brake, I think the fact you fell off less once you got on a proper bike
has something to do with wheel size and stability then anything else.

**vifferman** · 5th October 2005, 15:02

Originally Posted by dawnrazor

the wheel size of scooters has alot to do with their instability, not necessarily the front brake, I think the fact you fell off less once you got on a proper bike
has something to do with wheel size and stability then anything else.

Yeah, sort of.
Wheels provide a gyroscopic balancing effect, and the larger/weightier they are the more this 'stabilising force'. However, it's probably more a factor of contact patch size (probably smaller on scooters), weight distribution (more rearward biased on scooters), tyre quality (scooterists who ride for economy-related reasons possible favour 'budget' rubber), and the steering geometry of the machine.
Let's face it, as most scooters are budget commuting machines, designed for modest speeds, they're unlikely to be set up with optimal handling in mind, and further more, they don't have a race heritage and the inherent testing/refining to draw upon.

**MisterD** · 5th October 2005, 15:27

Originally Posted by dawnrazor

the wheel size of scooters has alot to do with their instability, not necessarily the front brake, I think the fact you fell off less once you got on a proper bike
has something to do with wheel size and stability then anything else.

It's also quite a lot to do with the fact that there's bugger all weight on the front wheel of a scooter - everything mechanical plus the rider are right over the rear wheel - so the front is that much easier to lock up.

**mstriumph** · 5th October 2005, 15:34

Originally Posted by dawnrazor

the wheel size of scooters has alot to do with their instability, not necessarily the front brake, I think the fact you fell off less once you got on a proper bike
has something to do with wheel size and stability then anything else.

scooters actually frighten me --- the little wheels, the fact the rider is not astride ...... i know its a personal choice but ....scarey!

**vifferman** · 5th October 2005, 15:36

Originally Posted by MisterD

It's also quite a lot to do with the fact that there's bugger all weight on the front wheel of a scooter - everything mechanical plus the rider are right over the rear wheel - so the front is that much easier to lock up.

Ahem.........

Originally Posted by me

However, it's probably more a factor of ... (blah blah blah)... weight distribution (more rearward biased on scooters)