New crash study.

[FJRider]

So whats non factual about the nub of my argument here that the faster you go around a bend the less chance you have of braking or swerving if shit happens? Not one person who has responded to me has been able to answer that question yet but if you are an any good instructor you should be able to give me a serious answer and not a stupid one like many others?

The faster you go around a bend ... the less time you have to brake or swerve for "things/shit" on your side of the road (ie:sheep/cows/dogs/other vehicles/rocks etc) and rapidly changing your line of travel mid corner is not easy ... (too) many crash in corners trying to do just that. Best you keep us ALL safe and stay at home.

[Gremlin]

So whats non factual about the nub of my argument here that the faster you go around a bend the less chance you have of braking or swerving if shit happens? Not one person who has responded to me has been able to answer that question yet but if you are an any good instructor you should be able to give me a serious answer and not a stupid one like many others?

Well first I'm not an instructor (NZTA I endorsement). I too went through the advanced roadcraft process a few years, ate some humble pie and lifted my game, passing the Advanced Test. Through practise and hard work, I qualified (passing the Observer Test) to mentor other riders, in a role called Observer.

Second, at the very highest and most simple level, yes, the faster you go, the less time you have to react (because you cover more distance). However (and please continue reading because I don't want to be counted in agreement with you), at the very core of advanced roadcraft is giving a rider more time to react, at any given speed, through good positioning and excellent observation.

Look up IPSGA if you want more info, but keeping it brief, you're taking, using and giving Information as much as possible (TUG), Positioning your motorbike accordingly (SSV), which then dictates what sort of Speed is possible (eg, the vanishing point is still coming towards you so you need to reduce speed) and with this change in speed you need to consider what Gear you're in and whether you need to change, and at this point you should have all of the previous sorted to negotiate the corner/hazard/whatever and can apply the Acceleration phase (and a motorbike is more stable in a corner with a slightly positive throttle as it settles the suspension).

Sounds like too much? Sure, very few come close to meeting the required standard without 6-24 months of practise, feedback and more practise. All this should add up to a well skilled rider, able to see issues well before they occur (what we call an active rider - managing their environment, rather than a passive one letting everything happen around them) and yes to go back to your question, a well skilled rider will negotiate anything at a higher speed with more time to react than a lesser skilled rider that perhaps didn't even see the hazard.

And just in case you still think speed is what it's all about, an advanced rider (we differentiate between experienced and advanced) should show progress (not just outright speed) and restraint in equal measure according to the situation.

[onearmedbandit]

I am the one that said that. Its best that all the others who felt that advise was shit/dangerous should stay home don't you think?

I think you'll find that those comments were aimed at some of your earlier pearls of wisdom, for example moving over the the left of the lane on the open road when faced with oncoming traffic etc.

[nzspokes]

So whats non factual about the nub of my argument here that the faster you go around a bend the less chance you have of braking or swerving if shit happens? Not one person who has responded to me has been able to answer that question yet but if you are an any good instructor you should be able to give me a serious answer and not a stupid one like many others?

Thats easy, an decent rider will have assessed the Safety, the Stability and the View through each corner they come to. Then as they proceed through the turn they chase the limit point keeping in mind they must be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear.

Its all part of a riding plan.

[nzspokes]

But you are thinking more of a bend the rider can see right around from the start. Where accidents are more likely to happen is where a fast moving rider can not see all around the bend right at the start.

Now try reading and understanding what I said and you will see speed is addressed.

[nzspokes]

I am glad you now see I make sense about what I said that the faster you go the less time you have to react if shit happens and where we differ in view is that I am a believer in the KISS principle "Keep it Simple Stupid" and for it to take up to 24 months at your riding school to become advanced to me sounds plain nuts. The fact that you say very few ever meet your standard just proves to me that you need to simplify your teaching in a major way. The main issue I have with not wanting to attend a riding school is while they can teach you to ride safely yourself there is no way they can teach you to be safe from the errors of all other motorists and animals obstacles etc. Unlike you I have been in 4 accidents 2 caused by dogs and 2 by car drivers and the common thing with all 4 is that I never had time to even brake things happened so fast. So even if I had got an advanced certificate at your riding school it would have been zero help. While it has not been said in this thread I have had comments from others on here saying that there is always time to swerve or brake to avoid the errors of other motorists. What they mean when they say that is they personally have always had time to swerve or brake and have just been lucky. If everyone had time to swerve or brake there would be no crashes at all on the roads now would there? You will no doubt feel very disillusioned with what you have been taught at riding school should you ever find yourself a victim of someone elses screwup and you too have not had time to swerve or brake.

And right here we have the core of your problem. You admit you cant be bothered learning how to do something properly and you have had 4 crashes that you blame everybody but yourself. Yet you cant see these are linked. Just because a Dog/driver/pedestrian/small child does something wrong, a decent rider has to be able to allow for this and avoid the incidents before they happen. The reason things happen so fast for you is you do not have a riding plan.

The laziness in your riding is the cause of your issues and the core reason you wont go have a proper riding assessment.

[Voltaire]

Hey Cassina, do you really only have an 82 Honda 750?

[Akzle]

Nope, Akzle has previously offered to pay for Cassina to attend a riding course.

*an observed ride.

his time, and the instructors.


...but, and this is where he pussies out i'm sure, his assessment becomes a matter of public record.

[SVboy]

I am glad you now see I make sense about what I said that the faster you go the less time you have to react if shit happens and where we differ in view is that I am a believer in the KISS principle "Keep it Simple Stupid" and for it to take up to 24 months at your riding school to become advanced to me sounds plain nuts. The fact that you say very few ever meet your standard just proves to me that you need to simplify your teaching in a major way. The main issue I have with not wanting to attend a riding school is while they can teach you to ride safely yourself there is no way they can teach you to be safe from the errors of all other motorists and animals obstacles etc. Unlike you I have been in 4 accidents 2 caused by dogs and 2 by car drivers and the common thing with all 4 is that I never had time to even brake things happened so fast. So even if I had got an advanced certificate at your riding school it would have been zero help. While it has not been said in this thread I have had comments from others on here saying that there is always time to swerve or brake to avoid the errors of other motorists. What they mean when they say that is they personally have always had time to swerve or brake and have just been lucky. If everyone had time to swerve or brake there would be no crashes at all on the roads now would there? You will no doubt feel very disillusioned with what you have been taught at riding school should you ever find yourself a victim of someone elses screwup and you too have not had time to swerve or brake.

Follow the Pied Piper or shun the mutant Leper? All you have done is reinforced your position as an out of control Luddite and a crash statistic. If you went to an advanced riding school perhaps you would have been able to better read and control your riding environment and avoid the hazards that lead to your crashing 4 times so far. Rather you go straight to " it wasn't my fault, nothing I could do" blame mode. The blame sits squarely on you. Then in this thread you have the slight realisation that your position of ignorance is wrong, so you look at the mountain of evidence against you and cherry pick bits that suit you and say " looks like I was riding like that all along. Then you can twist bits of other's posts to make them look like they agree with you. Classic Autism.
I think your position on KB is reflected in your rep statistics, as I said earlier, we bore easily and it is fun to play with the spaktard, in between going around corners in a safer and faster manner than you ever will, eh sport.

[Akzle]

I am glad you now see I make sense

pretty sure gremz has qualified himself.
what's your qualification?

protip: a WOF guy is not a qualification.

only 4?? colour me shocked

[OddDuck]

Cassina:

- Won't listen
- Doesn't learn
- Is always right
- Yep, always right
- huge or fragile ego, so always right
- Gotta be right because admitting a mistake might mean actually having to change.

And that right there is a dodgy rider.

If this is deliberate trolling to get people talking about safety then it's performance art in progress, but I'm not so sure about that. The thread's lost focus on genuine discussion of safety and turned into a nitpicking contest. This is not productive or useful.

Cassina won't listen, I know that. But to anyone else reading:

Sometimes you've got to swallow your own ego, take the hit, let someone else get one up on you, lose that eternal contest for dominance vs submission, etc etc, and in this way you may learn something. It will hurt in the moment but it will benefit you hugely in the long run. If you doubt this, find someone who just won't listen or learn and look at how quickly they get to a certain level and then stay there. They don't improve past that point, they don't grow. It's quite obvious when you see it in someone else.

Shutting your own ego down can require a conscious act of will but it's how you'll get better.

[Akzle]

:

Sometimes you've got to swallow your own ego, take the hit, let someone else get one up on you, lose that eternal contest for dominance vs submission, etc etc, and in this way you may learn something. It will hurt in the moment but it will benefit you hugely in the long run. If you doubt this, find someone who just won't listen or learn and look at how quickly they get to a certain level and then stay there. They don't improve past that point, they don't grow. It's quite obvious when you see it in someone else.

Shutting your own ego down can require a conscious act of will but it's how you'll get better.

except for me, obviously, i'm already fucken perfec

[nzspokes]

I addressed posters like you in my above comment when I said that luck has saved them and not a riding school. But if you want to believe your riding school education is going to keep you safe forever from the screw ups of others good luck with that. Also I do actually have the ability to swerve or brake as a result of others screw ups where there is time. I suppose if you were unlucky enough to come to grief as a result of another motorist's screw up you would blame the school and not the motorist that screwed up.

Yet you are to scared to go for a ride assessment.

Few years back I hit a car side on. It was in dual lane traffic. A car illegally saw a gap in the traffic and went for his driveway. I hit him. Legally he was at fault and the courts agreed.

But I see this as my fault for not seeing this risk earlier. I should have see the gap in the traffic and linked that to being a risk. I lacked observation. If I had recognized this it would have been a simple brake then carry on my way.

This is one of the reasons I try to keep learning. I am also in IAM but have not made full membership yet. When I do that wont be the end of my learning. IAM is a charity that work to help keep riders alive.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[onearmedbandit]

This thread is hurting my head now thanks to cassina.

[onearmedbandit]

I am not forcing you to read it though if you want to get rid of your headache.

I can't help it, you're like a train wreck.