New crash study.

[madbikeboy]

What you don't get though its not that riding schools can not help you be a safer rider yourself but its all the claims on here riding schools also offer you protection from the screw ups of others. Others do not come at you all at the same speed when they screw up which many on here have a false impression they do with claims like there is no such thing as shit happening so fast you cant brake or swerve.

Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

If you're looking far enough ahead, with a constant stream of plans for what ifs, and you've honed your skills with practice and tuition, you're still going to be a deluded cunt.

[nzspokes]

What you don't get though its not that riding schools can not help you be a safer rider yourself but its all the claims on here riding schools also offer you protection from the screw ups of others. Others do not come at you all at the same speed when they screw up which many on here have a false impression they do with claims like there is no such thing as shit happening so fast you cant brake or swerve.

You are not getting that observation makes these sudden accidents become minor avoidance situations.

[nzspokes]

While you're training with Gremlin, ask him to teach you how to wipe your licence plate clean using the road...

He is Captain Sensible these days.

[madbikeboy]

He is Captain Sensible these days.

He's a very wise guy with mad skills on the bike. May he forever be in my memory with his little wheel stands.

[FJRider]

What you don't get though its not that riding schools can not help you be a safer rider yourself but its all the claims on here riding schools also offer you protection from the screw ups of others. Others do not come at you all at the same speed when they screw up which many on here have a false impression they do with claims like there is no such thing as shit happening so fast you cant brake or swerve.

You can only be safer if you listen to what they say and (remember) follow their advise.

Not protection but awareness of how those screw ups happen.

Being "in the right" and having "Right of way" ... and being within the prescribed speed limit does not give you the security to ignore all other road users.

Expect that anything and anyone within 50 meters of you ... wants to do you harm. By expecting trouble you will see it coming sooner.

[onearmedbandit]

Go and have a test ride on a big Harley and post back about how controllable that is at low speed if you have not ridden one already.

These mustn't be HD's then, because it certainly couldn't be the riders ability.

[caspernz]

C'mon OAB, there's some trickery involved in this...can't be rider ability, that's just not logical in some people's eyes...

[nzspokes]

Go and have a test ride on a big Harley and post back about how controllable that is at low speed if you have not ridden one already.

My everyday bike is 270kg. Yes done slow speed on Harleys. No big deal.

[flashg]

Some of us on lower incomes just have to make trade offs in life. I would like a safer car too but the cost for that is over $100k.

I'm gonna have to call "Bullshit"on that. You do realize you can buy second hand cars for well under 20k with ABS, Airbags and all that fancy safety stuff ?
Been able to for years, if you didn't know

[nzspokes]

I'm gonna have to call "Bullshit"on that. You do realize you can buy second hand cars for well under 20k with ABS, Airbags and all that fancy safety stuff ?
Been able to for years, if you didn't know

My current dog carrier has ABS and traction control. Cost 4k.

[flashg]

My current dog carrier has ABS and traction control. Cost 4k.

Well it seems two posters on this thread agree that vehicles with these safety features are very affordable.
Cassina can now go shopping and trade in the Morrie thou.

[Gremlin]

So to combine what you have said plus what the other poster has said about low speed handling your ability to impress at riding school can very much be influenced by your choice of bike.

Choice of bike, like tight turning circle sure, however, confidence and ability to handle that bike makes a larger difference.

I'd be reasonably confident that my GSA is bigger than your bike, as it's bigger than most. I can u-turn it in less than 2 car park widths (I've never really measured accurately) and frequently ride at low speed (<10kph) and the u-turns are also sometimes done 2up with a cameraman doing an impression of a monkey at the same time.

Do you teach a child to walk or run first? Same with motorcycles. You start with the foundations (like motorcycle control at low speed, and low speed skills) and build up from there.

[russd7]

okay, i made a decision quite a while ago not to respond to cassina. so i will use the excuse that this is for the benefit of any newbies that might be getting sucked in by his BS.

firstly i have been riding since early eighties and had two offs on the road, first was as a young fella and showing off, leaving a farming feild day and sunout on some cowshit in the gateway, the other was as a young fella and hit black ice and i was expecting it so was only doing less than 20km/hr so i count neither of those.
i used to think i was just lucky but then i had a couple of really close calls in a short space of time and it was purely situational awareness that saved me.

the first was a tractor came out of a gate way and didn't see me, luckily i saw him coming and knew he was going to hit the road at the gate about the same time as me so i threw the anchor out and hauled off a load of speed, that stopped me becoming a nice new mid mounted implement on a john deer.

the second was in the car traveling to work one very dark rainy morning, a falcon ute coming out of a farm gate, i knew they weren't going to stop and threw on the anchors, came to a halt beside their drivers door, they didn't even know i was there until she pulled round beside me. i called in that nite to have a quiet word and she blamed it on the flax and not being able to see up the road, problem is i could see her drivers side window the whole time, she just didn't look.
no luck involved in either of those. it was at that point i realised it is my skill level that keeps me alive and turns disastrous situations into "shit that was close" situations

next, i have done two ride forever courses, they are tailored to who is on the course and no one that i know of believes they are god after doing them but every one on the courses i have done left them feeling they were better equipped to avoid disaster.

next, i ride a zzr1100 and do slow speed turns, and have done since purchasing it new, bike weight is 233 dry weight so with this fat fucker on it probably round 400kg with fuel and oil
i also ride a 1500 goldwing and do slow turns and u turns on it with my wife aboard, total weight probably well over half a ton, oh and that bike still gos round corners reasonably quickly as well.

lastly, peripheral vision, the zzr is a sports tourer but still a very lean forward riding position, i have no worse peripheral vision on that than i do on the wing with its very upright sitting position

[madbikeboy]

But for example if you want the very latest in safety features the only way to go is brand new and I would go for something like a BMW X5, Jaguar F Pace, Landrover Discovery or similar as they offer a tank like protective feel too. Buying an old one would cost a fortune in repairs if it broke down.

Having owned both an X5 and a Disco, you're kidding yourself - you haven't got a fucking clue.

5 Star Volvo V50, $88 a year for registration because of the safety. Front brakes (brembos) are $103 per rotor, pads are about $80. Oil change is the same as a Corolla, filter is $14 for a Hengst. I can see half a dozen low mileage V50's for between $7,000 and $9,000.

You're seriously fucked in the head.

[madbikeboy]

Fucktard yourself i never said ABS was a bad idea but was very expensive to repair if it packs up. Some of us on lower incomes just have to make trade offs in life. I would like a safer car too but the cost for that is over $100k.

So at the lights you ride about a 1 metre gap between 2 lanes of traffic and all you are doing is hoping that gap does not close as both lanes of traffic take off because you would possibly become sandwiched between the 2 cars on each side of you as where you are the cars would be less likely to see you than a car coming up behind. There is no requirement in the road code as far as I know to keep an eye out for or to give way to lane splitting motorbikes. The only split lanes I have seen between 2 lanes of cars are for cyclists. I would not consider lane splitting with only a 1m gap between cars any less safe than stopping in the line of traffic. As for your comment about slow speed handling on big bikes some of us have a better sense of balance than others. I cant be too bad though as I was criticised in earlier posts for cornering too slowly.

ABS systems are actually pretty reliable. Safety equipment tends to be. The Common Rail Diesels - different story - I recently saw a late model CRD in a Euro force fed petrol. $15,000 rebuild. Owner decided to scrap the car, sensibly.

You're an idiot. Moronic. Stupid. You're on a bike. If you can walk through the gap, you can ride through the gap. Splitting is safer than sitting on the end of a line - getting rear ended would fuck up your day. I've lane split a couple of times. Never an issue with cars alongside.

If you can't balance, you have no right to be on a motorcycle. You're doing me a disservice in two ways. First, you're jacking up the ACC levy. Second, you're using up oxygen that can be better used elsewhere.

Shit. I fell for it. I'm trying to have a reasoned discussion with an imbecile.