New crash study.

[onearmedbandit]

I've only been riding for around 26yrs now, but in that time I've taken a fair few corners. And almost without exception they've been taken at above the suggested speed. Only twice have I come off in that situation, both times when I was in my early days of riding and both my fault. I'll take my chances using my judgement with regards to corner speeds.

[edit] I do take the signs into consideration.

[pritch]

I've only been riding for around 26yrs now, but in that time I've taken a fair few corners. And almost without exception they've been taken at above the suggested speed.

If it was pissing rain perhaps I'd stay nearer the speed on the sign but in good weather with no other limiting factors the signs are pretty much irrelevant. Except the 20kph ones.

[swbarnett]

For your information sport there are 2 others that have posted in this thread who have either agreed with me either fully or in part. As for claiming my comments as being clueless they may only appear to you to be that way as I dont ride to any rigid line through bends like you do and thats because I treat all bends differently.

As the Nike saying goes some of us "Just Do it" rather than having to go to school to find out.

And therein lies the problem. Anyone that doesn't know enough to know how little they know cannot claim to be an expert on any subject.

You will never be qualified to talk about motorcycle cornering (or riding in general for that matter) until you know how little you really know. And I would suggest to you that the best and safest way to achieve that state is via riding courses.

This may have something to do with the fact there were no riding schools in my day

Well now there are. It's never too late. Maybe just look at it as a way to gain some credibility on here. Put your money where your mouth is.

only the practicle license test which I passed first time.

This means nothing. I passed first time as well (1982). I shouldn't have. The standard was far too low.

If I could not corner on my bike I would have failed the test and likely crashed now wouldn't I?

Not true. The vast majority of car drivers don't know shit about cornering. Sure, they can get around the average corner when all goes well but when it turns to shit they're way out of their depth. Why should an untrained motorcyclist necessarily be any different?

[onearmedbandit]

If it was pissing rain perhaps I'd stay nearer the speed on the sign but in good weather with no other limiting factors the signs are pretty much irrelevant. Except the 20kph ones.

Agreed, in the wet it's a different story. And yes those 20kph ones are something different.

[swbarnett]

I have yet to strike a speed advisory sign as you have that you feel has been incorrectly marked

Case in point. Some years back there was a news article about the frustration of the Hawea towie. He had repeatedly pulled cars out of the lake on one particular corner. The cause turned out to be that this particular corner was signposted as 65kph, as was the previous corner. The issue was that this corner had twice the curvature of the previous one; 65kph was simply too fast for most drivers. The locals knew this so didn't get caught out, only tourists ended up in the lake.

[awayatc]

I have been around plenty of bends

.

That's the only thing you have ever said that I can agree with....

You may also say that you are over the top. ..
Way over....

[Akzle]

. If I could not corner on my bike I would have failed the test and likely crashed now wouldn't I?

just for those that are new here... remind us how many times you've crashed

[Bass]

Agreed, in the wet it's a different story.

While I don't disagree, provided that one stays off the shiny stuff, I am frequently surprised at just how good modern tyres are, in the wet.
Having said that, it seems to me that staying off the shiny stuff is getting more difficult as the general condition of our roads deteriorates. That is probably the biggest influence on my corner speed in the wet, as it is getting ever harder to predict what the road surface will do around the next bend.

[onearmedbandit]

While I don't disagree, provided that one stays off the shiny stuff, I am frequently surprised at just how good modern tyres are, in the wet.
Having said that, it seems to me that staying off the shiny stuff is getting more difficult as the general condition of our roads deteriorates. That is probably the biggest influence on my corner speed in the wet, as it is getting ever harder to predict what the road surface will do around the next bend.

Totally agree. Modern tyres grip incredibly well but the unpredictability of the road surface means you can't always rely on that.

[Ulsterkiwi]

And I may agree, same goes for those fucking double yellows. They keep putting them on the straights before corners, which makes it really hard to pass, since there is often only about 50m of safe passing area when going around a corner, you got to get a really good run at it, but sometimes this results in an aborted attempt with brakes being slammed on if a car is coming the other way. But, we must do exactly as the road marking or signage says lest we be unsafe, right?

Sometimes the way road markings are applied is a real frustration, especially the solid yellows. I think there are clear examples of where they aren't that useful for motorcycles but probably for cars. The other thing is an awful lot of overtaking doesn't seem to entail much planning or anticipation so maybe its one of those "lowest common denominator" things. Still plenty of occasions where drivers/riders completely ignore the fact that by crossing those solid lines they are overtaking with no sight line of what is coming at all.
Don't even start me on lane markings appearing and disappearing at intersections or on roundabouts....

[Taxythingy]

Now in the right hand turn (for the bike) the car is only just out of view, withen say another 0.5m of the car travelling foward which is 0.0362 of a second the cars right headlamp will be visible (you dont need to see the whole car to know that avehicle is oncoming. Given average reaction time is say 0.2 sec its a negligble beenfit for even the sharpest of minds.

Nitpick, but you need to compare like with like. The change in visibility is a full car length for the car's front corner to be just visible in the two scenarios, so use 4m for your calculation. That'll give you about 0.3 seconds, so starting to be a useful difference.

[Ulsterkiwi]

I don't disagree with what you have said here and it in effect echos 2 other posters views who said they also agree with me either fully or in part. Have you not read all the posts though from those who have said by taking a specific line you can be assured of being able to corner faster? Some of them appear to claim they have been taught that in riding school. Safety and Stability as you say do not appear to come into it the way they think as it would likely mean taking a less than desirable and slower line through the bend.

Well there are specific lines where you can corner faster so if they have been taught that then what is your objection?
I think you are a bit quick to dismiss the value of courses and coaching. With the best will in the world, no matter how good an instructor is, its unlikely 100% of what is delivered as course content will stick in the minds of students. I do not think you are in a position to say that safety and stability have not been addressed by a course.
If anything, not making use of all the content delivered, demonstrates that learning is not a one hit experience. There is a reason ACC encourages riders to take the courses on an ongoing/repeat basis, learning and skill development is a continuum not a point on a timeline.
I would suggest that your mindset about having passed your test whatever number of years ago and having X years of experience is indicative of a common issue with the approach of many riders and drivers. Namely that passing an assessment of competence at a point in time is sufficient guarantee of the maintenance of that competence. The possession of a driving licence for life (assuming one does not accumulate enough demerits along the way) is one of the few remaining examples in life where certification or licencing is not subject to ongoing or routine verification and validation. All the experience in the world is of little value if the experience is umpteen years of making the same mistakes, using poor technique or failing to progress and develop one's skillset.

[onearmedbandit]

So.....how about that study huh....

[Zedder]

So.....how about that study huh....

I found it interesting and enlightening. Thanks for posting it.

[Ulsterkiwi]

So.....how about that study huh....

Sorry mate, it's a really useful thing you did to post this. I didn't mean to add to the distraction away from it. Sometimes when you see things being said that are just plain misguided you have to speak up. Or at least that's what I thought.....


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