It Won't Happen To Me, I don't need to change.

[old slider]

don't ride staggered unless it's dead slow, preferably with disco escort at both ends.
that's the whole "don't let anyone else dictate your road position" thing

Cheers Akzle, the only public group rides I have been part of had escorts at both ends and staggered bikes, it seemed to go very smoothly and I felt comfortable being able to create my own following distances as conditions dictated, the faster riders were able to move further up the group at various places along the journey, usually this was at intersections and road turn offs with them all being controlled by members of the ride.

Of course I have the ability to indicate, pull into a rest area and change my direction of travel if I feel uncomfortable.

[eldog]

Cheers Akzle, the only public group rides I have been part of had escorts at both ends and staggered bikes, it seemed to go very smoothly and I felt comfortable being able to create my own following distances as conditions dictated, the faster riders were able to move further up the group at various places along the journey, usually this was at intersections and road turn offs with them all being controlled by members of the ride.

Of course I have the ability to indicate, pull into a rest area and change my direction of travel if I feel uncomfortable.

+1 decide for yourself

[Gremlin]

Once again, another thread descends into the same old drivel and I've moved the majority of it.

To all those involved, or thinking about being involved, consider this your warning. Keep your contribution to a thread relevant, without abusing another member.

[Akzle]

Once again, another thread descends into the same old drivel and I've moved the majority of it.

To all those involved, or thinking about being involved, consider this your warning. Keep your contribution to a thread relevant, without abusing another member.

thanks. but next time, shitcan it before it devolves.

perhaps spanky's spam-o should be employed, where if it posts the same shit, over and over, in irrelevant threads, they don't show up, and it gets pinked.
or shot in the face.

[caspernz]

Once again, another thread descends into the same old drivel and I've moved the majority of it.

To all those involved, or thinking about being involved, consider this your warning. Keep your contribution to a thread relevant, without abusing another member.

On the one hand, point noted.

On the other hand Mr Gremlin, sometimes one can feel a duty to stem the tide of BS that originates from one particular member that has only one record. The fact this record is skipping and keeps playing the same tune, whilst living in a fairyland no less, makes it hard to stay on topic and relevant.

[rastuscat]

While in general, staggered on a straight section is the norm. It can give yourself more vision ahead and braking distance is slightly increased (you never know you may need that 10 ft). With my skill level I prefer not riding directly side by side, it gives you no room.


BUT, Always access the situation for yourself, position self irrespective of how others have done.

You can always use those ahead of you, as a guide. If they suddenly brake or serve, you know something is up and can change your plan if think its necessary.


Sounds like that "don't let anyone else dictate your road position"

Staggered formation is important. It allows better visibility forward, and enables better surface appraisal for the rear rider.

Problem is, when staggered formation is adopted it encourages compression. Riders see clear space ahead and tuck up on the rider ahead.

This prevents free lateral movement by the rider ahead.

Lateral movement is the key to good positioning. My three positioning motivations are surface appraisal, visibility in and out, and buffering.

I want to vary my lateral position to mitigate risk via those three motivations.

When people behind me tuck up in behind me it reduces my ability to use lateral movement to mitigate risk per my perceived cumulative assessment.

Just pay respect forward. Allow a 2 second gap to the rider ahead.

[eldog]

Staggered formation is important. It allows better visibility forward, and enables better surface appraisal for the rear rider.

Problem is, when staggered formation is adopted it encourages compression. Riders see clear space ahead and tuck up on the rider ahead.

This prevents free lateral movement by the rider ahead.

Lateral movement is the key to good positioning. My three positioning motivations are surface appraisal, visibility in and out, and buffering.

I want to vary my lateral position to mitigate risk via those three motivations.

When people behind me tuck up in behind me it reduces my ability to use lateral movement to mitigate risk per my perceived cumulative assessment.

Just pay respect forward. Allow a 2 second gap to the rider ahead.

Well put

Exactly what I was thinking.

Positioning should always be accessed by the individual.

General suggestions about riding positions etc are good starters.

Its always a changing situation, one that needs to be access continuously.

In the group riding I do, I really like the person behind me, they keep well back.

I don't want them coming to grief because I did something stupid.

[caspernz]

Can only support what RC has laid out

The phrase that comes to mind, in regards group riding and staggered formation, is "why am I here" as in the position in relation to other riders. Is there a benefit to this action?

So in an urban situation you might argue having a 1 second following distance, in an offset position may work for the purposes of keeping the group fairly snug, it will also put a rider in a less than ideal position for view.

Move onto winding roads and the stagger has to go, with riders going back to single file formation, which then makes the 2 second following distance critical. This then creates a slowing of riders further back from leader.

All this works when you're riding with those of similar ability and training standard. In the absence of such, I'd say obey the 2 second rule and encourage single file riding.

My five cents

[YellowDog]

Regarding group riding, I am always more interested in who's behind me, rather than in front, and if they are keeping too close, I make sure I am in another part of the group, after the next break.

[old slider]

Now this right here is another reason why I enjoy logging in to KB, some great information for those of us who want it.

I did notice on the two group rides i attended that the staggered positions changed to single file when the roads got a few bendy bits and then reverted back to staggered when they straightened out.

I actually enjoyed those rides and never felt pressured to out ride my capabilities or felt at risk, if I had I would have simply gone my own way.

cheers guys for the sharing of your knowledge helping to make some of us more aware and our motorcycling safer.

[WilDun]

If you're worried about what might happen you'll never get out of bed ..

That's why birds are always up and about early.

[ellipsis]

...I dislike riding around here in the summertime, my exit out of here is directly onto SH75, the Akaroa GP circuit...in the winter it is a fantastic ride, not so in the summer months...my wife who rides with me on our group ride, (me and her) cringe at the sound of sports bikes hitting the 60 kph sign before entering the village main street, many still holding 10,000 revs like it's not the done thing to slow down...often the cringe is justified as we hear the WestPac chopper coming over a short while later to pick up the injured and maimed...this is common and has been for a few years now...it's not solely sports bikes but it generally is...the majority of the damage seems to be lack of experience and losing control without cages being anywhere near the incidents...but try and tell this to riders who believe their own bullshit...

...I've been self employed in my trade for 45 years and still learn something on every new job I take on...often these revelations make me slap my head and wonder why , in all these years, did this new revelation not pop up and become ingrained years before...I can only put this down to, every day is a different day and it aint always gonna be like the days that went before...after racing bikes on oval dirt and sealed tracks for thirty years the same shit applies...if you think you know it all then you will not proceed past your level of skill up to that point...

...the road is not a fucking race track...

[HenryDorsetCase]

...the road is not a fucking race track...

this. So much this. Its only taken me 35 or so years to realise it.

[pritch]

One thing about following distance, it's not a rule as such but it's a guide. Allow the rider in front of you the same distance as he is allowing the rider he is following. Presumably this is the distance at which he is comfortable.

Can't remember where I got that, may have been Nick Ienatch or maybe David L Hough?

[T.W.R]

I don't know whether I'm mistaken, but it seems to me that attitudes about re-skilling/upskilling are changing. At one time, wanting to upskill seemed a bit of a rarity and there was a whole load of macho posturing that went with it. Nowadays, (even on KB, excepting the occasional fuckwit ), riders seem far more open to lifelong learning.

Publicity & perception are changing with time, still an element of social conditioning is contributing as well. The development of the facilities available are far in advance of what they were too. There'll always be a certain element that have the blinkers on to any form of self improvement and there's the ones who just jump through the hoops without actually learning anything, but the short comings of both get brought to the fore when the shit hits the fan....natural attrition happens for a reason.

Yeah. Everyday commute is a group ride where I'm on the smallest Road Platform. It breeds a Wary Eye, Covering the Brake Lever, and looking ahead for Shit About To Happen.

Situational awareness to the fore....BTW you forgot what can be the killer....what's going on behind
Though the number of motorcyclists who get uppity in traffic & commuter congestion and take passive filtering & que jumping to another level and make it aggressive need a reality check as some usually end up getting but in general they aren't doing the motorcycle community or the general population's perception of us any favours, only cementing already bias opinions.