It Won't Happen To Me, I don't need to change.

[YellowDog]

Greater skills = Greater confidence = More enjoyable riding.

Young riders, with peer pressure to keep up, and be as good as their personal perception says they should be, is a dangerous problem I see a lot.

Personally, I'm happy to say: "You guys are too quick for me. Don't hold back on my account. Keep going at your own pace and I'll see you later"

[T.W.R]

Staggered formation is important. It allows better visibility forward, and enables better surface appraisal for the rear rider.

Problem is, when staggered formation is adopted it encourages compression. Riders see clear space ahead and tuck up on the rider ahead.

This prevents free lateral movement by the rider ahead.

A drum that's been beaten for decades, this pic is nigh on 40yrs old itself and from a handbook for learners




Slightly different application but a good rule of thumb used by 4WD clubs on organised trips etc is give plenty of space to the vehicle ahead so it can navigate obstacles unhindered and it's the forward vehicles job to not loose sight of the vehicle behind.....keep a check of the mirrors once in a while that way everyone has plenty of space without congestion and the group travels at the pace of the slowest.

[T.W.R]

...I dislike riding around here in the summertime, my exit out of here is directly onto SH75, the Akaroa GP circuit...in the winter it is a fantastic ride, not so in the summer months...

...the road is not a fucking race track...

Take it back 50+ yrs when the majority of it was still shingle there wouldn't be so many cowboys & yahoos stroking their egos on the Akaroa Rd

2wheels4life123 on youtube is a prime example the arrogant dickheads that frequent the road and do the motorcycling community no favours

[Banditbandit]

Staggered formation is important. It allows better visibility forward, and enables better surface appraisal for the rear rider.

Problem is, when staggered formation is adopted it encourages compression. Riders see clear space ahead and tuck up on the rider ahead.

This prevents free lateral movement by the rider ahead.

Lateral movement is the key to good positioning. My three positioning motivations are surface appraisal, visibility in and out, and buffering.

I want to vary my lateral position to mitigate risk via those three motivations.

When people behind me tuck up in behind me it reduces my ability to use lateral movement to mitigate risk per my perceived cumulative assessment.

Just pay respect forward. Allow a 2 second gap to the rider ahead.

Move onto winding roads and the stagger has to go, with riders going back to single file formation, which then makes the 2 second following distance critical. This then creates a slowing of riders further back from leader.

All this works when you're riding with those of similar ability and training standard. In the absence of such, I'd say obey the 2 second rule and encourage single file riding.

This - yes - this is what I mean by people not knowing how to ride in a group.

Staggered formation must be maintained by both the rider in front and the rider behind. This means if you are on the left - stay on the left - if you are on the right, stay on the right.

Most of us riding solo use lateral movement, as Rastus says - which means we move left to start a right turn and right to start a left turn ... we move from left to right across the road.

This does not work in a group, as riders are then cutting across the lines of the riders behind. So group riding requires a small change in riding style. It also means that group rides need to keep the speed down so that riders can maintain their position WITHOUT using lateral movement. A slower speed does not require late apexing etc.

The speed is dependent on the lead rider - and as a lead rider I always keep the speed way down from what I normally ride at.

For most riders this means a conscious decision about their riding style - what many riders do not realise. It requires situational awareness. Awareness of what is happening on the road and our part in that ...

Of course - the other problem with group riding is the few crazies whose testosterone rages up and they have to prove they are faster .. thus endangering everyone else ..

[Voltaire]

" Honey....come back, I meant I'm having a MLC not a MILF....dang Press and its acronyms"

[rastuscat]

The alternative to slowing down a group ride in order to avoid riders having to move laterally bemuses me.

If people on group rides maintained the legally required following distance, or better yet, the 2 second rule, everyone could ride their chosen position without having to factor in the numpty behind them.

How hard is it to stay back?

[eldog]

The alternative to slowing down a group ride in order to avoid riders having to move laterally bemuses me.

If people on group rides maintained the legally required following distance, or better yet, the 2 second rule, everyone could ride their chosen position without having to factor in the numpty behind them.

How hard is it to stay back?

Not that hard really...

Only occasionally I need to remind myself how far back 2 sec is at varying speeds.

It is nice to cruise very slowly through town in a group

[SVboy]

Take it back 50+ yrs when the majority of it was still shingle there wouldn't be so many cowboys & yahoos stroking their egos on the Akaroa Rd

2wheels4life123 on youtube is a prime example the arrogant dickheads that frequent the road and do the motorcycling community no favours

I watched a few of his YouTube clips. What do you take issue with?

[Woodman]

There is technology in some cars today where the brakes are automatically applied if the following distance gets too close. Maybe that technology will be available on bikes too one day. As we all slow down with age such technology could benefit us all no matter how many years have been spent going to riding school or for those like myself who have never been as riding school will not slow down the aging process.

Some on here probably enjoy following their mates close.

[Scuba_Steve]

...the road is not a fucking race track...

That really depends on the road

[T.W.R]

I watched a few of his YouTube clips. What do you take issue with?

Really! you have to ask

Most of his videos it's more a case of what don't you take issue with and on more than a couple of them there's damn close calls that could've easily ended up as fatalities....one in particular where one of the bunch on a 1098 or the likes stupidly overtakes near a blind left hander and is only a hairs breath away from becoming a hood ornament. And to cap it off he ain't that fuckin quick either just a narcissistic throttle jockey

[SVboy]

Really! you have to ask

Most of his videos it's more a case of what don't you take issue with and on more than a couple of them there's damn close calls that could've easily ended up as fatalities....one in particular where one of the bunch on a 1098 or the likes stupidly overtakes near a blind left hander and is only a hairs breath away from becoming a hood ornament. And to cap it off he ain't that fuckin quick either just a narcissistic throttle jockey

Lol! I didn't review all his clips in detail, but from what I saw, his braking was gradual, turn in points and lines were conservative( both left and right) , with safe overtaking( from what I saw). He was not hunting apexes and had pretty modest corner speeds, esp into blind bends. He rides far slower on the road than he does on the track and knows the Akaroa GP well. He rides with a group of like minded friends, most of which are similarly experienced. Nice guy, not arrogant and just out there having fun!
Now, I believe, from your posts on KB, that you may have done the GP at pace in your earlier years?

[T.W.R]

Lol! I didn't review all his clips in detail, but from what I saw, his braking was gradual, turn in points and lines were conservative( both left and right) , with safe overtaking( from what I saw). He was not hunting apexes and had pretty modest corner speeds, esp into blind bends. He rides far slower on the road than he does on the track and knows the Akaroa GP well. He rides with a group of like minded friends, most of which are similarly experienced. Nice guy, not arrogant and just out there having fun!
Now, I believe, from your posts on KB, that you may have done the GP at pace in your earlier years?

I haven't watched all of his clips either just done quite a few & at some of his exploits. Dunno which ones you've watched but from you've keyed in they must be different as I've seen the total opposite of what you're suggesting. I don't see blind siding or buzzing a rider ahead of me or one who has just passed me as conservative nor popping wheelies past them or cars heading towards blind corners either. Sitting high on corners where it's notorious for cars & buses etc to straddle the white line isn't particularly the safest option either. His best option would be to vent his enthusiasm at the track & keep it there.
I wont deny what I used to get upto on the Akers many years ago and it was a hell of a lot quicker on a lot older bikes, but it was a different world and youthful stupidity soon dilutes when you really start thinking about the consequences of ones actions. I can still punt over there at a rapid rate of knots but 30 odd years of doing it builds a different type of respect for the road

[Kickaha]

Take it back 50+ yrs when the majority of it was still shingle there wouldn't be so many cowboys & yahoos stroking their egos on the Akaroa Rd

I dunno about that, Dad has a few stories about dragging bikes out of the shrubbery on that road back in the late fifties maybe early sixties

[T.W.R]

I dunno about that, Dad has a few stories about dragging bikes out of the shrubbery on that road back in the late fifties maybe early sixties

Ha yeah but what I was getting at is that there wouldn't be many of the current breed going ballistic over there
Back then the majority of enjoyable country roads were still shingle.....even the NZGP was still held on a shingle track till the early 60s and to which Geoff Duke politely declined an invitation to attend and compared the ones racing to a bunch of lunatics racing on marbles