BOOS Hurting Us

[actungbaby]

the cornering it self slows you down.And keep lookig round the corner

I used push the front to slow the bike i know its not a good idea .

Put i enjoyed it ;-) hehe but i was serious thats what used to do .

I whould never dream about braking with the front while leaning thats a race track thing.

And thats only to get better lap times what idiots do that on the street . whats the point.

I mean fine if you enjoy scaring yourself im not into that .

[actungbaby]

I've had a couple Sunday night F-you work Tomorrow wines and misread your title.

I though this was a post about BOOBS not braking.

Mind you I'd brake very hard for Boobs.

There is a T-shirt right there - "I brake for Boobs"

Or

Brake for Boobs
Vote Akzle

I just glance left or right isint that what where taught look both ways dangerous curves ;-) am allowed to look . two sec rule or else its perving.

[Akzle]

, yes the ABS saves your arse but you're also now taking longer to stop.

you reckon?? i don't believe you

[Akzle]

In a car maybe slamming full tit with ABS alone is best. I reckon bikes react differently to sudden changes. But shit yeah ABS on bikes does do an amazing job.

never had a car or bike with ABS.

also never been in a situation i'd need to use it.

you're right on about the staged/progressive braking. and that sudden or callous input is risky.
i still disagree about your ABS comment. and will until i see some evidence

[caspernz]

you reckon?? i don't believe you

never had a car or bike with ABS.

also never been in a situation i'd need to use it.

you're right on about the staged/progressive braking. and that sudden or callous input is risky.
i still disagree about your ABS comment. and will until i see some evidence

There you go, you've never had car or bike with ABS...

The 3 stage braking method, set-up, hard application, let-off at end, works in all vehicles. I've gotten my trainees at work to do it in a 50 ton truck even.

Especially on a bike, being smooth in the initial application, instead of just grabbing a handful, allows suspension to load up and front tyre to start to flatten out. Then when you squeeze the lever back to the bar, you've now generated so much grip you'll find the ABS may not even kick in unless you encounter a surface variation. The guys teaching the Rideforever stuff demonstrate this technique as well, because it works.

But yeah, until you have a vehicle with ABS and get to try it for yourself, I can accept you'll struggle to believe it

[Navy Boy]

Another factor here...

If you ride a Harley (like my 48 for example) the sound of scraping metal usually means that you need to brake as you can't lean it over any further...

Believe me - You don't need to practice this very often before the message of 'Slow down and stop riding like a dweeb in a hurry' hits home.

And yes, the first time this happened to me I did what most people do and grabbed the front brake rather hard. Thankfully it was dry and I had some room to spare.

I stopped for a tactical cup of tea very shortly thereafter

As for ABS - I was a sceptic - Until I rode a bike fitted with it and needed it in a hurry. Compensation for a lack of training/large cahunas (Delete as applicable)? Possibly but to be frank I didn't ask myself that at the time.

[Akzle]

There you go, you've never had car or bike with ABS... But yeah, until you have a vehicle with ABS and get to try it for yourself, I can accept you'll struggle to believe it :shutup

hardly relevant. if you read the next line i wrote.
i've tripped ABS (deliberately) in a few cars. but still doesn't alter my stance.

The 3 stage braking method, set-up, hard application, let-off at end, works in all vehicles. I've gotten my trainees at work to do it in a 50 ton truck even.

Especially on a bike, being smooth in the initial application, instead of just grabbing a handful, allows suspension to load up and front tyre to start to flatten out. Then when you squeeze the lever back to the bar, you've now generated so much grip you'll find the ABS may not even kick in unless you encounter a surface variation. The guys teaching the Rideforever stuff demonstrate this technique as well, because it works.

:

i'm not arguing against progressive braking.
the point about loading suspension and smooth weight transfer, bigger contact patch etc is valid, but doesn't negate the fact that ABS is DESIGNED to mitgate the consequences of panic braking. that is, full braking from the outset.

if ABS doesn't "kick in" then you've done your job in braking well.

[Akzle]

:

As for ABS ... Compensation for a lack of training

this. and that is all.

[Woodman]

ABS in cars with stability control etc means the only training you need is "brake hard and steer away from the hazard" Old school braking techniques aren't required IMHO.

Also I brake in corners on my bike quite a lot. May have something to do with the fact it is a dual purpose bike with aggressive knobblys which I don't particularly trust on the road but it seems to work.

[Navy Boy]

this. and that is all.

Yep - I can see your point Akzle.

In theory we shouldn't need to have/rely upon ABS or Traction Control. I've done plenty of training in this area both in the road environment as well as on the track.

All of which taught me that I'm the limiting factor; not the bike.

My 48 doesn't have ABS (It's one of the things I like about it - The simplicity and purity that is) so you learn how to handle a skid when, not if, it happens.

I've no issue with admitting that I enjoy riding ABS-equipped bikes too though and that knowing it's there is reasuring.

Each to their own fella.

[rastuscat]

Loving reading this thread which has
devolved somewhat. Lots of good tips though. Cheers for the post about the stages of progressive braking.

Both my bikes have ABS. I train to brake efficiently without engaging it, but it doesn't bother me that it's there.

I'm not a purist.

Donuts.

[pritch]

at times get away with no lean by tilting the head, .

Not sure what you mean by this. The head should be kept as near vertical as practicable. The horizon is part of your sense of balance. If cornering on a bike you don't really want to be affecting your balance by sending your brain confusing information. Check photos of GP riders, even at the extreme angles of lean they use, they are keeping their head as near vertical as possible.

Re ABS, nobody can outbrake ABS in a one-off panic stop situation. OK some riders have done so after a number of "warmups", but in the real world you don't get any warmups.

It's likely that in the not too far distant future ABS will be compulsory on all road bikes anyway, and that won't be a bad thing.

[old slider]

Nice thread

Some how by sheer luck or maybe it arrived from riding/falling off lots of bikes as a youngster that I developed progressive braking as the norm.

I also noticed that I do it a lot when driving around city streets, at all intersections and when coming up to stop signs, traffic lights etc.

My thinking is that by flashing the brake lights several times it may hopefully alert any following vehicles to the fact that I am actually there.

[Viking01]

Loving reading this thread which has
devolved somewhat. Lots of good tips though. Cheers for the post about the stages of progressive braking.

Both my bikes have ABS. I train to brake efficiently without engaging it, but it doesn't bother me that it's there.

I'm not a purist.

Donuts.

Rastus,
Interesting to see your comments, especially as you ride ABS machines
as well as do rider training.

My VFR is non ABS, so "progressive braking" on the front (as described
in the three step process by MD in post #31) has always been the way
to do it. [The VFR has linked brakes, so I get a little braking and squat
at the rear in step 1 as well].

But I'm honestly curious about your comment "I train to brake efficiently
without engaging it". And why.

Not having ridden a modern machine with ABS, I don't have any feeling
what the "braking experience" is like when ABS does kick in.

If ABS allows you maximum front braking right up to the point of lockup,
does this not mean your practice "gives away" a small amount of braking
performance ?

Or do you prefer to "keep a little in reserve", knowing that you can brake
even harder still if needed ?

Interested to read your reply.

Cheers,
Viking.

[Moi]

Well worth practicing for panic braking - on a clear empty straight road.

Stage braking requires some self control to resist the urge in a panic situation to just 'grab a handful' of the brake lever in one action squeeze the dear life out of it. This creates a shock to the whole bike's composure and could send you straight into skidding or a stoppie. Neither of which will do stuff all to reduce your speed. Certainly when leaned or wet it will dump you.

... Another way to explain it would be if your measured how much effort you applied when squeezing the brake lever at 1 for the lightest of touches and 10 absolute hard as possible. Then you would squeeze lever a second each at say 3, then 6 then 10.

Cheers for the very full explanation. I was thinking that was what you meant but still asked in case there was something you'd say that was either new to me or reminded me of what was needed. Considering it's blowing and pouring down outside, I think I'll leave it for another day to go and practise some emergency braking...