Motorcycle Gangs

**scumdog** · 16th April 2004, 01:26

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

Getting angry Spud? Resorting to personal abuse is a sign of uncertainty in your arguement.
If three cops can't subdue one man without killing him, there is something very wrong. And this comes from personal experience, not imaginings.
Lou

Sure three cops could subdue a man without killing him but you would need a damn fancy crystal ball to see you weren't the one that was probably going to get snotted before the others got control.

I have seen a vodeo where cops were doing pepperspray training, the "bad guy" was another cop who wasn't hyped up on "p" or anything but had just worked himself into a frenzy, the pepperspray had almost no effect and if the weapon he had (I think it was a "sword") had been real and he had pushed home his attack there would have been mayhem.

Put it this way - if I was faced with a deranged person who was holding something that could give me "serious bodily harm" and did not think I could out run them I would use whatever it took to make sure they did not get to me and at those distances you would have to be pretty brave to try the pepperspray first to see if it worked

ppP

**spudchucka** · 16th April 2004, 05:43

Originally Posted by scumdog

Sure three cops could subdue a man without killing him but you would need a damn fancy crystal ball to see you weren't the one that was probably going to get snotted before the others got control.

I have seen a vodeo where cops were doing pepperspray training, the "bad guy" was another cop who wasn't hyped up on "p" or anything but had just worked himself into a frenzy, the pepperspray had almost no effect and if the weapon he had (I think it was a "sword") had been real and he had pushed home his attack there would have been mayhem.

Put it this way - if I was faced with a deranged person who was holding something that could give me "serious bodily harm" and did not think I could out run them I would use whatever it took to make sure they did not get to me and at those distances you would have to be pretty brave to try the pepperspray first to see if it worked

ppP

Maximum distance for spray is 3 metres, well within the kill zone of a person armed with a stabbing or blunt instrument. A distance of 3 metres can be closed in the blinking of an eye and the spray can take up to 7 - 8 seconds to take effect and can have no effect at all on a motivated offender. It would not have been a good option in the Waitara incident.

**Lou Girardin** · 16th April 2004, 06:40

Originally Posted by marty

sorry lou, but i have issue with this. as far as i know you have never been a police officer. i am happy though to be corrected if i'm wrong.

No, not Police. But in the MOT and when I was driver testing I had to subdue guys a lot bigger than me. (Nearly everyone's bigger than me)
We had no batons, pepper spray, etc. Just plastic crowd control handcuffs.
Lou

**spudchucka** · 16th April 2004, 07:04

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

No, not Police. But in the MOT and when I was driver testing I had to subdue guys a lot bigger than me. (Nearly everyone's bigger than me)
We had no batons, pepper spray, etc. Just plastic crowd control handcuffs.
Lou

So given your extensive experience in restraing dissatisfied driver licence applicants you would no doubt be happy to take on, (unarmed) a crazed maniac full of muderous intent armed with a baseball bat. On ya.

**marty** · 16th April 2004, 07:58

ROTFLMTO..................

**spudchucka** · 16th April 2004, 08:39

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

Getting angry Spud? Resorting to personal abuse is a sign of uncertainty in your arguement.
Lou

Sorry Lou I didn't realise I was arguing with you, I thought I was just insulting you. My mistake I suppose?

**Big Dog** · 16th April 2004, 16:33

Originally Posted by El Dopa

1) If a person is off his head on P or PCP, the tranq might not work

2) Even if it does, it might not have an effect until the perp has already done what he was threatening to do, e.g. pull the trigger and kill a hostage. The effect isn't instantaneous, unlike a bullet.

3) its a lot harder to get a dart into someone and deliver a payload than it is a bullet

4) if a person had a bad allergic reaction or similar and then died as a consequence, the media would be all over it like a rash for weeks on end. "they said it was harmless, but now her son is dead. Someone must take the blame"

1 yeah but it might.
2 but I mean in circumstances where the perp is contained
3 true.
4 yeah but I am sure the survival rate on a tranq would be higher than survival rate on lead poisoning.

I personally would rather deal with the hangover of a trnaq than a bullet. Given a choice I will take my chances with a tranq dart 10/10 times.

**El Dopa** · 19th April 2004, 20:43

Originally Posted by Big Dog

1 yeah but it might.
2 but I mean in circumstances where the perp is contained
3 true.
4 yeah but I am sure the survival rate on a tranq would be higher than survival rate on lead poisoning.

I personally would rather deal with the hangover of a trnaq than a bullet. Given a choice I will take my chances with a tranq dart 10/10 times.

Yeah, it does sound like a reasonable option in certain circumstances. Corrall/contain your suspect, then get close enough to pop a dart in his (or her) leg, without exposing yourself/getting within their striking distance.

But I suspect the range of circumstances it could be used in would be narrow, so it isn't really cost effective.

Example: the suspect would almost always have to be unarmed (his bullet goes further and straighter than your dart, and hits harder), and they'd have to be alone, as in not holding a hostage, cos shooting and missing, or shooting, hitting and the drug not taking effect quickly would run the risk of enraging him and tipping him over the edge into hurting the hostage.

I think most police forces worldwide have done the thinking, and decided that in 90% of cases, they can rely on other non-lethal means of restraint when things get that close in. E.g. pepper spray, electric zapper, truncheon, restraint holds etc. The other 10% isn't worth time and money for training and equipment.

**SARGE** · 12th August 2005, 22:57

Originally Posted by jrandom

Hmmm.

In the good ol' USA, there's a statistically interesting group. That's the bunch of people with legally issued 'concealed carry' firearms permits.

i am one of those people.. i worked in nightclubs etc (several were " biker Bars") and carried large amounts of cash every night .. i carried a 9mm Berretta everywhere in Condition 1 (round chambered)

**Sniper** · 13th August 2005, 06:24

I had gang members come after me once. They were high and wanted m bicycle. I got away which isnt too hard when you are chased by Blen members

**thehollowmen** · 13th August 2005, 13:20

OK

People:
Random question

Many of us wear KB hoodies and KB shirts and have ordered the KB patches...

Does this make KB a 'patch club'?

**Bonez** · 13th August 2005, 15:01

Originally Posted by thehollowmen

Does this make KB a 'patch club'?

Being new to thread I'd say the answer is a resonding YES!! You big bad patch riding, panel kicking, mirror breaking, fist waving Kiwi Bikers you

**Bonez** · 13th August 2005, 15:29

Originally Posted by Jackrat

Well considering KB ain't a club,Id say not.

Read this my dear Watson

http://www.brainydictionary.com/word...lub144935.html

**Beemer** · 13th August 2005, 15:31

Originally Posted by bondagebunny

black power and mongrel mob are not bike gangs - they are ethnic based street gangs, only a few of their members ride bikes, most go around in big cars.
There are plenty of Biker Clubs, Hells Angels being best know but most towns have their own club, Out Casts-Hamilton, Titans-Matamata, Loners-Levin, etc. It goes on - even the smallest of towns has a patch club.

I've just stumbled over this thread after someone revived it and I'd like to know where BB gets his information from. I've lived in Levin for five years and have NEVER heard of the Loners. There is a motorcycle CLUB here - the Levin Custom and Touring Club - but no motorcycle gang. My husband has lived in this area all his life (originally from Otaki) and he said the name Loners vaguely rings a bell - but not in Levin, he thinks they were based in Paekakariki.

In case you don't know, Levin is famous for its nongs (Kimberley)

, not its gangs!