demerits is it worth it?

[HenryDorsetCase]

whens the last time someone got a ticket for not stopping at a pedestarian crossing until the pedestarian is back on the footpath? anybodies guess,
why don't the cops put cameras in the cars and police bad driving instead of falling back on speed speed speed as the be all and end all of our road deaths?

wait whut? you just need to wait till theyre off your side of the road then you can go...

I felt bad the other day I was turning in a queue of people waiting to turn, light went green nobody moved, I waited the usual respectful two seconds then blasted the horn..... then saw the really doddery old person on the walking frame INCHING across three lanes of traffic. Clearly had a deathwish and wanted to die.

[Moi]

I have always considered myself fairly knowledgeable on the Road Rules due to a previous job. Although I am taking this off topic a bit I am genuinely interested to know where you got this from. Is this an old NZ rule? I know it is not current, all the current rule says is you have to give way. There is an argument as to when you have complied with that, ie when they have passed in front of you or when they have got to the kerb, but not aware of any offence caused by pulling away before they have got to the footpath on the other side.

Here you go

OK, it's the Road Code and so not the legislation, but I'm sure someone can find the legislation...

[Berries]

Current legislation is part 10.1 of the Road User Rule. The Road Code link you posted states that you must "wait until the pedestrian has crossed in front of you and is clear of your vehicle before you proceed - see give way rules." No mention of waiting for them to reach the footpath which was my point. Perhaps it was in the 1976 Traffic Regs but it is not covered now.

[jasonu]

I spose I should've known not to waste perfectly good sarcasm on a seppo

Except you come off as a bit of a dick rather than sarcastic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q3k7K11cyQ

[Moi]

Current legislation is part 10.1 of the Road User Rule. The Road Code link you posted states that you must "wait until the pedestrian has crossed in front of you and is clear of your vehicle before you proceed - see give way rules." No mention of waiting for them to reach the footpath which was my point. Perhaps it was in the 1976 Traffic Regs but it is not covered now.

The Road Code states:

• if there is no raised traffic island in the middle of the crossing, stop and give way to pedestrians on any part of the crossing
• if there is a raised traffic island in the middle of the crossing, stop and give way to pedestrians on your half of the road
• wait until the pedestrian has crossed in front of you and is clear of your vehicle before you proceed - see give way rules.

I have put into bold the section referring to a pedestrian crossing, as opposed to two pedestrian crossings which are joined in the middle of the road by "raised traffic island" - on these you give way to pedestrians on YOUR side.

Land Transport (Road User) Act 2004 states:

10.1 Pedestrian crossings

(1) A driver approaching a pedestrian crossing must—
(a) give way to pedestrians, and to riders of wheeled recreational devices or mobility devices,—
(i) on the pedestrian crossing; or
(ii) obviously waiting to cross it and who are not behind a school patrol sign; and

(b) if necessary, slow down and stop the driver’s vehicle for that purpose.

(2) A driver approaching a pedestrian crossing must not enter the crossing if the driver’s intended passage is blocked by stationary traffic.

(3) For the purposes of this clause, if a pedestrian crossing is interrupted by a raised traffic island, the parts of the crossing that are situated on different sides of that traffic island must be regarded as separate pedestrian crossings.

(4) This clause does not apply to a pedestrian crossing that is for the time being controlled by an enforcement officer.

Compare: SR 1976/227 r 12(1), (3)

Clause 10.1(1)(a): substituted, on 1 November 2009, by clause 34 of the Land Transport (Road User) Amendment Rule 2009 (SR 2009/253).
Clause 10.1(1)(a)(ii): amended, on 1 October 2011, by clause 19 of the Land Transport (Road User) Amendment Rule 2011 (SR 2011/307).

Amendment Rule 2009 states:
Pedestrian crossings

Clause 10.1(1)(a) is revoked and the following paragraph substituted:
“(a) give way to pedestrians, and to riders of wheeled recreational devices or mobility devices,—
“(i) on the pedestrian crossing; or
“(ii) obviously waiting to cross it; and”.


I'm going with what is in the Road Code, that is a pedestrian crossing that goes from one kerb to the other with no middle island is "a pedestrian crossing" and that traffic must give way to a pedestrian any where on that crossing.

[Berries]

Yeah, I know all that but think you misunderstand me. When do you think you have complied with giving way to a pedestrian, once they have passed you or once they have reached the other side of the crossing, or median if there is one?

Look at it this way. At a T intersection when you have to give way to a car coming from your right before pulling out you let them go past. How far do you let them go up the road to your left before you deem you have complied? Surely it is the same thing?

Can you 'give way' to something travelling away from you? I would suggest that 'way' is given once they have passed you.

[Moi]

Yeah, I know all that but think you misunderstand me. When do you think you have complied with giving way to a pedestrian, once they have passed you or once they have reached the other side of the crossing, or median if there is one?

I consider I have complied with "giving way to a pedestrian" when they reach the other side of the crossing, whether that is the kerb on the other side of the road or the kerb of the median island closest to my side of the road. In the past the road rule said you had to wait until the pedestrian had passed from in front of you and then you could drive across the pedestrian crossing behind the pedestrian.

Look at it this way. At a T intersection when you have to give way to a car coming from your right before pulling out you let them go past. How far do you let them go up the road to your left before you deem you have complied? Surely it is the same thing?

At a T-intersection I would move off after the other vehicle has cleared or almost cleared the intersection which I take as the area bounded, for argument's sake, by lines from the corners to the other side of the road. As for this being the same thing, no. The road code states you stop and give way to a pedestrian on any part of the crossing, that is the key part of the requirement - "any part of the crossing". I'd suggest that your analogy to an intersection is not the same as a pedestrian crossing.

Can you 'give way' to something travelling away from you? I would suggest that 'way' is given once they have passed you.

Whereas I'd suggest that it has nothing to do with when the pedestrian has passed in front of you but has everything to do with when the pedestrian steps off the pedestrian crossing which is a section of the road that crosses from one kerb to the other or to a mid-road island.

However, in the intersection example, once the other vehicle has passed out of the quadrant that you need to give way to then you have given way to that vehicle.

[rastuscat]

Yeah, I know all that but think you misunderstand me. When do you think you have complied with giving way to a pedestrian, once they have passed you or once they have reached the other side of the crossing, or median if there is one?

Look at it this way. At a T intersection when you have to give way to a car coming from your right before pulling out you let them go past. How far do you let them go up the road to your left before you deem you have complied? Surely it is the same thing?

Can you 'give way' to something travelling away from you? I would suggest that 'way' is given once they have passed you.

Yup.

10 karakturs.

[caspernz]

I consider I have complied with "giving way to a pedestrian" when they reach the other side of the crossing, whether that is the kerb on the other side of the road or the kerb of the median island closest to my side of the road. In the past the road rule said you had to wait until the pedestrian had passed from in front of you and then you could drive across the pedestrian crossing behind the pedestrian.

In practical terms you're expected to remain stationary until the pedestrian has cleared your lane, or your side of the road, whether there's an island or pedestrian refuge in centre of road.

[FJRider]

In practical terms you're expected to remain stationary until the pedestrian has cleared your lane, or your side of the road, whether there's an island or pedestrian refuge in centre of road.

The rules ...

-if there is no raised traffic island in the middle of the crossing, stop and give way to pedestrians on any part of the crossing

-if there is a raised traffic island in the middle of the crossing, stop and give way to pedestrians on your half of the road

[Berries]

Moi posted the actual rules above, we just have a different interpretation of when you have given way and can pull off.

Anyway, those bloody temporary speed limits........

[Moi]

In practical terms you're expected to remain stationary until the pedestrian has cleared your lane, or your side of the road, whether there's an island or pedestrian refuge in centre of road.

That may be "practical", but I'm going to suggest that by doing so you are not complying with the legislation as stated in the act or as it's explained in the road code. The act states give way to a pedestrian "on a pedestrian crossing" and the road code states "stop and give way to pedestrians on any part of the crossing". To me the key word in the road code is "any" and in the act the key words are "on a pedestrian crossing".

In our local area the majority of pedestrian crossings that are not traffic light controlled are of the island in the middle of the road type. At present I can think of only one pedestrian crossing that goes from one kerb to the other and as that crossing is in the middle of a shopping village, I will continue to stop and wait for a pedestrian to leave any part of the crossing before proceeding.

[caspernz]

The rules ...

-if there is no raised traffic island in the middle of the crossing, stop and give way to pedestrians on any part of the crossing

-if there is a raised traffic island in the middle of the crossing, stop and give way to pedestrians on your half of the road

That's not how it's being taught though, and yes my recall is as per your statement above.

Was caught out by this myself, when on the I endorsement course recently. We can make the mistake of remembering what was in the Road Code from days gone by, never mind that the Road Code isn't the legislation itself.

[Moi]

Moi posted the actual rules above, we just have a different interpretation of when you have given way and can pull off.

And that's the problem... we should never have to "interpret" what a road rule means. There should never be any ambiguity as to what a road rule means.

Anyway, those bloody temporary speed limits........

Possibly a pro-active response from NZTA with education - both the safety and the road construction aspects - followed up by an active policing of temporary speed limits.

[FJRider]

That's not how it's being taught though, and yes my recall is as per your statement above.

Was caught out by this myself, when on the I endorsement course recently. We can make the mistake of remembering what was in the Road Code from days gone by, never mind that the Road Code isn't the legislation itself.

The AA point of view ...

https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/ask-an-exp...dvice/show/88/