To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Buells.

[pritch]

but I'll tell you what I reckon I my apex speeds were faster on the XB12R I had.

BIKE magazine did one of those winter slow-season argument articles about the best cornering bike of all time. It's over a decade now since I read it, but I seem to recall the Buell won ahead of the Aprilia 250.

[Navy Boy]

BIKE magazine did one of those winter slow-season argument articles about the best cornering bike of all time. It's over a decade now since I read it, but I seem to recall the Buell won ahead of the Aprilia 250.

'tis true. I remember reading it at the time. For an engineering geek such as myself I was was always fascinated by Buell's engineering-led approach to bike design. It's a shame the plug was pulled when it was...

[rastuscat]

Rode a Ulysses once. Interesting ride. Eric was a tragic genius.

Those radial mounted disc brakes totally made sense. So why didn't the idea take off?

[Grumph]

Rode a Ulysses once. Interesting ride. Eric was a tragic genius.

Those radial mounted disc brakes totally made sense. So why didn't the idea take off?

Because with more weight concentrated at the rim, centripedal force is higher and there's more resistance to direction changes.
The conventional layout while not ideal, at least has as much mass as possible concentrated as close as possible to the rotational center.

[Ocean1]

Rode a Ulysses once. Interesting ride. Eric was a tragic genius.

Those radial mounted disc brakes totally made sense. So why didn't the idea take off?

They weren't any better than normal brakes for a road bike, sub-par for track work and to get the best from them you needed decent aftermarket pads.

The advantage was in the maybe 10kg lower unsprung weight. That, the snappy steering head angle and the huge frame rigidity makes for most of what people perceive as very crisp handling.

[Ocean1]

Because with more weight concentrated at the rim, centripedal force is higher and there's more resistance to direction changes.
The conventional layout while not ideal, at least has as much mass as possible concentrated as close as possible to the rotational center.

But there's only one of them, I reckon the effect would be about the same as the pair of big fuckoff Brembos on the SDR, and much lighter. When I got the 1125 the thing most people boggled at after the radiator pods was the 8 pot caliper.

The biggest issue with them is the extra surface speed, there was simply not the pad material development the conventional rigs benefited from. I had mine actually perceptibly glowing a dull red at the end of the back straight at Manfeild, it remained dark blue from there on.

[Grumph]

I've seen it suggested that the sheer weight of the Buells tended to mask the reluctance to turn at speed - and the quick geometry helped too.
The same brake type on a lightweight bike apparently shows it up quite markedly.

[Ocean1]

I've seen it suggested that the sheer weight of the Buells tended to mask the reluctance to turn at speed - and the quick geometry helped too.
The same brake type on a lightweight bike apparently shows it up quite markedly.

174Kg from memory, about 20Kg lighter than the SDR. Not difficult to see how it was done: count the components, Buell is obviously a Colin Chapman disciple. And yes, I don't think there's any way the SDR would wear the Buell geometry, I think it'd just push the front.

I found the big negative for the 1125 on a track was the aerodynamics, the front got scary light at speed.

[husaberg]

Yep - so friggen good that you can't go down to your local Buell stockist and buy a new one.

And there was this gem ....

underneath that ugly bodywork was a rather nice XR1000 engine

[AllanB]

Those radial mounted disc brakes totally made sense. So why didn't the idea take off?

If they were the bees-knees the racing world would have adopted them.

[husaberg]

Rode a Ulysses once. Interesting ride. Eric was a tragic genius.

Those radial mounted disc brakes totally made sense. So why didn't the idea take off?

If they were the bees-knees the racing world would have adopted them.

Brittens direct mount to spokes was better. although a bit like a rehashed VFR or CBR 1986 Yahaha sort of rediscovered it in the mid 2000's

[pritch]

This discussion of alternative technical solutions is a sad reminder of what a stunning disappointment Moto2 has been. The formula was for a control engine and pretty much unlimited anything else. Presumably though the teams didn't want to scare the sponsors away so there was zero innovation. The result being what is technically the least interesting class.

[Cosmik de Bris]

Because with more weight concentrated at the rim, centripedal force is higher and there's more resistance to direction changes.
The conventional layout while not ideal, at least has as much mass as possible concentrated as close as possible to the rotational center.

I seem to remember reading about an MV Agusta race bike that they developed for Agostini which used the wheel rim as the disc and had the calipers like a push bike. I think that Agostini said it reminded him of a push bike and was not impressed.

Cheers

[Navy Boy]

Rode a Ulysses once. Interesting ride. Eric was a tragic genius.

Those radial mounted disc brakes totally made sense. So why didn't the idea take off?

Like a number of good ideas (Remember the slow-selling Yamaha GTS1000?) the harsh reality of the bike market is that new ideas aren't enough on their own. They have to have a tangible (Normally financially beneficial) aspect to them as well. For all our desire to be seen as being individual and standing out from the crowd bikers are a surprisingly conservative bunch when it comes to such matters.

Of course the Ulysses and the GTS1000 had other issues/factors which played their part in ensuring that they weren't a lasting success. Price and weight being just 2, plus dubious build quality in Buell's case, however the basic premise that bikers are reluctant to change remains.

I remember looking at a new Firebolt and being sorely tempted back in the day... Perhaps I should have been braver and given it a try???

[husaberg]

I seem to remember reading about an MV Agusta race bike that they developed for Agostini which used the wheel rim as the disc and had the calipers like a push bike. I think that Agostini said it reminded him of a push bike and was not impressed.

Cheers

Some early Honda GP bikes the 50 twins i think had those.


Some even had brake drums i guess for cooling