And so it begins. White farmers thrown off land in SA

[Pixie]

I don't know the details of this but if the land was stolen, confiscated under the SA apartheid laws then I can not see what the problem is. Does anyone know the historical background of this?

Skyryder

Yeah give the land back to them.After all,they manage it so well when it's returned to them.That is why Zimbabwe is now known as "The bread basket of Africa"

[jazbug5]

..And you don't imagine the poor, simple creatures might have picked up a thing or two while they were doing all the hard labour on the land..?

Zimbabwe is suffering an enormous amount of social and political disruption. The leadership is at fault, not the people in general. Mugabe may be a cretin, but that's no reason to belittle the abilities of his victims, the people. Anyone here read about the millions of people that starved in China during the 'Great Leap Forward' and other wonderful schemes brought to us by Mao & His Cronies (tm)?

[Lias]

What people seem to be missing is there is no justification for giving the land back to the blacks.

Even if we say that the land was "unfairly" invaded and conqueuered, thats still no reason for giving it back. Do you see britain returning land and offering compensation to the descendants of the scots or welsh they invaded, occupied, raped and murdered for 100's of years? Do you see the US government offering massive reperations to native americans? Of course you fucking dont. Conquest is a normal part of life, and the conquerors are not obligated to turn around and give it all back a few years down the bloody track.

IMHO the main mistake the early SA settlers made was they didnt try and exterminate the blacks. Take the US.. They damn near commited genocide against the american indians, and as a result they are a tiny minority that sits on reservations and doesnt bug the rest of society.. Smart move imo

[Joni]

I don't know the details of this but if the land was stolen, confiscated under the SA apartheid laws then I can not see what the problem is. Does anyone know the historical background of this?

Yes I do actually...
and it has very little to do with the 1700's or 1800's. If you would like to know more about it I will pm you with pleasure.

[Coyote]

It's already happening here

Trying to find an article on the net about this, but it was in the Dominion Post* that the local tanga te whenua has laid a claim to aprox. 300 plots of land around Wellington, Petone and the Hutt Valley. There's 2 plots of land down my street that are being claimed. Still not clear on the details. Did anyone else see this?

*I believe it was the Dominion Post, could've been in another newspaper

[jazbug5]

Do you see britain returning land and offering compensation to the descendants of the scots or welsh they invaded, occupied, raped and murdered for 100's of years?

Er... spot the deliberate mistake?

As for the rest of your post... meh. Can't be bothered, frankly. And as for Maori families getting back their (often recently taken) land, then if they have proof of it bloody good on them, I say. *takes cover*

[Lias]

Er... spot the deliberate mistake?

*blush*
No, just the result of me rewriting what I was saying and not checking it all made sense.

I was thinking in terms of Britain being split up into its distinct parts again, and of England offering reperation to the other nations. That clearer?

[Biff]

I was thinking in terms of Britain being split up into its distinct parts again, and of England offering reperation to the other nations. That clearer?

Pedant hat on...

Britain is already is split up into distinct parts (countries and principalities), each nation being recognised as such by both the European parliament (each nation/region with their own European members of parliament) and the UN (although the borders of the nations have changed over time). Each of the nations within Britain (not the UK though, which includes Northern Ireland) have their own national assemblies, albeit with varying legislative and tax raising powers (but that’s becoming more of a European governance issue these days, EU tax harmonisation programs etc).

I wouldn't use Britain as an example here, the model doesn’t quite fit. Granted many true Brits (original Brits like the Scots and the Welsh) have been persecuted over the centuries by English royalty/nobility, and their land stolen, then returned, but always governed by the English monarchy, but today Britain and the UK is pretty much a cohesive society. Although the calls for complete legislative independence is growing in Scotland and Wales. And if you get beyond the thuggery & organised crime in Northern Ireland you'll also find the majority of N.Irish would also prefer to remain part of the UK. Although that's mainly thanks to the loyal Scots troops (Protestants) and their families that the English moved into N.Ireland (Catholics) several centuries ago, in an attempt to quell Irish uprising against the then monarchy (rich, power hungry, imperialistic war mongers).

[Ixion]

Pedant hat on...

... Although that's mainly thanks to the loyal Scots troops (Protestants) and their families that the English moved into N.Ireland (Catholics) several centuries ago, in an attempt to quell Irish uprising against the then monarchy (rich, power hungry, imperialistic war mongers).

Not quite. In fact it was to quell the Irish rising in SUPPORT of the then monarchy.

The Protestants, from Scotland, were settled in Ulster by Oliver Cromwell, to displace the native Irish , because of the support of the latter for King Charles I , during the Civil War (or Great Rebellion, depending on what side you are) . Cromwell being, of course, the leader of the uprising against the monarchy (or, more strictly, the dude who grabbed power after the uprising) .

Republics don't work. We tried it, and it didn't work.

[Al]

Once again Skyryder, why the chip on the shoulder? That article on the BROEDERBOND was written by...?

It is actually APARTHEID and that education system did a damm fine job of educating people.

THe architects of APARTHEID, (Dr Verwoerd and cronies), are all dead or very close to death now. Apartheid was abolished in 1994 when the ANC won the election and took over the running of the country.
Seeing that whites are the vast minority in SA, whythe fuck does everyone still focus on what they did wrong. I do not condone what was done by the forefathers of the country, why should my generation be made to pay for it?
What about the hijackings, FARM MURDERS, taxi violence, etc? Are you going to blame the fascists for that too?
Get off your arse, go to Africa and experience it for yourself.... Just make sure you reserve your job here - those BROEDERBOND immigrants might take it away form you without proper compensation.

Al

[WINJA]

And the problem, WINJA and Skyryder, with South Africans coming to New Zealand is........?



Flame away

Al

FAR FAR TO FUCKEN MANY IS THE PROBLEM. SA IS FUCKED CAUSE OF THE POPULATION AND THEIR ATTITUDE AND NOW WE ARE LETTING THESE PEOPLE IN HERE.
BLACKS RIDING ON THE BACKS OF BUSES AND SHIT LIKE THAT ,DIRTY KEFERS,FLAT NOSES, I HEAR THESE ATTITUDES AT WORK FROM THESE SOUTH AFRICANS CAUSE IM QUITE WHITE ,BUT I HAVE A BLACK MUM, THEY DARE NOT SAY THE SHIT I HEAR IN FRONT OF BLACKS, I GOT IN A FIGHT WITH A SA GUY AT WORK A FEW YEARS AGO CAUSE OF HIS SHIT ATTITUDE , I WORKED AT A COMPANY WHERE A SA DUDE GOT TO BE A SERVICE MANAGER AND STARTED TO ONLY EMPLOY MORE SA GUYS , ITS NOW A FULL TEAM OF SA GUYS AND NO KIWIS, ITS JUST BRINGING SEGREGATION TO NZ

[Skyryder]

Once again Skyryder, why the chip on the shoulder? That article on the BROEDERBOND was written by...?

It is actually APARTHEID and that education system did a damm fine job of educating people.

THe architects of APARTHEID, (Dr Verwoerd and cronies), are all dead or very close to death now. Apartheid was abolished in 1994 when the ANC won the election and took over the running of the country.
Seeing that whites are the vast minority in SA, whythe fuck does everyone still focus on what they did wrong. I do not condone what was done by the forefathers of the country, why should my generation be made to pay for it?
What about the hijackings, FARM MURDERS, taxi violence, etc? Are you going to blame the fascists for that too?
Get off your arse, go to Africa and experience it for yourself.... Just make sure you reserve your job here - those BROEDERBOND immigrants might take it away form you without proper compensation.

Al

You make the false assertion that because Verwoerd and his cronies are all dead the forces behind apartheid no longer exist. The Broderbond is still active and its aims have not changed. You asked a simple question and I gave you a straight answer. I have more than enough concerns with the problems that New Zealand now face without us importing elements of apartheid into my country. No chip here just a little patriotism on my part.

As for the authorship of the document I have no idea but I do know a little of South African politics and I could detect no glaring inaccuracies.


As for the 1700 and 1800 conflicts I mentioned these only in the same context as land traded for beads and blankets. There is no one act that denied indigenous South Africans of justice on land issues. However the two most glaring acts are the Group Areas Act of 1950 which forced ethnic S. Afficans into areas predetermined by the South African Government and the Bantu Authorities Act of 1951.

No education system that advances the ideas that one race is superior to another can be said to have done a ‘dam fine job.’ On the contrary, if as you imply, those that go to SA are afraid of losing their jobs, is an example of your reasoning powers, then I can only say that your comments prove it.

As for visiting South Africa you make the ignorant assumption that I have not.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Republics don't work. We tried it, and it didn't work.

Pity a few more Kiwis thought this way.

Skyryder

[Al]

If the Broederbond is still operating why has the government of the day not stopped it?
Eugene Terblanche tried to stumble into a new SA with his failed AWB, the reason he did not succeed was because of the changed attitudes of the majority of the white (minority) population.
The problem with reading is that you only get the opinion of the writer, not the full story.
I agree that there are still rascist SAns, even here in NZ, BUT, look around you and listen to the rascism "at home". Christchurch has a problem with asian people, so all people in ChCh are rascist? No, I do not react to what is written and or on the news on TV.
As much as you hear about the "FLAT NOSE KAFFIR, etc" WINJA, listen to the locals slagging the Islanders, calling them black and coconuts, etc. Are Kiwis all classed as rascist because of a few incidents? No.
So, GET OVER IT, SOUTH AFRICANS WILL KEEP ON COMING TO NZ.
It costs a shitload of money to get into the country, no criminal records allowed, so turn the page and live life to the fullest.

Al

[Biff]

Not quite. In fact it was to quell the Irish rising in SUPPORT of the then monarchy.

I was referring to the 'proper' invasion in the 12th century by the Anglo/Normans, who I understood to be loyal to the then English crown. My understanding being that they were sent there to get rid of Diarmait McMurcda (my spelling may be way off), who, if memory serves me correct, as leader of the northern Irish at that time decided that he'd no longer recognised the English crown (Henry Tudor?).

Northern Ireland has a history as complex and bloody as the Palestines I guess. So we may both be on to something.