And so it begins. White farmers thrown off land in SA

[WINJA]

If the Broederbond is still operating why has the government of the day not stopped it?
Eugene Terblanche tried to stumble into a new SA with his failed AWB, the reason he did not succeed was because of the changed attitudes of the majority of the white (minority) population.
The problem with reading is that you only get the opinion of the writer, not the full story.
I agree that there are still rascist SAns, even here in NZ, BUT, look around you and listen to the rascism "at home". Christchurch has a problem with asian people, so all people in ChCh are rascist? No, I do not react to what is written and or on the news on TV.
As much as you hear about the "FLAT NOSE KAFFIR, etc" WINJA, listen to the locals slagging the Islanders, calling them black and coconuts, etc. Are Kiwis all classed as rascist because of a few incidents? No.
So, GET OVER IT, SOUTH AFRICANS WILL KEEP ON COMING TO NZ.
It costs a shitload of money to get into the country, no criminal records allowed, so turn the page and live life to the fullest.

Al

IM NOT SAYING THERES NO RACISM IN NZ , BUT AS A COUNTRY OUR GOVERNMENT INVITED ISLANDERS INTO THIS COUNTRY WHERE THE CULTURE AND GENERAL ATTITUDE FROM THE SA PEOPLE I SEE IN THIS COUNTRY IS THAT BLACKS WERENT EVEN WELCOME IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY , AND NOW YOU GUYS ARE BITCHEN AND CRYING WHEN THE WORM TURNS , I THINK YOU GUYS ARE THE WRONG KINDA IMMIGRANT AND I THINK YOU SHOULD STAY IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY AND SLEEP IN THE BED YOU MADE, I DONT BELIEVE THE GENERAL SA RACIST ATTITUDE HAS CHANGED AS A WHOLE, AND IM NOT SAYING I LIKE THE BLACKS IN YOUR COUNTRY EITHER.
GO HOME AND FIX YOUR COUNTRY ,SAME WITH IRAQIS I DONT THINK ANY SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN THIS COUNTRY , IRAQ IS BEUATIFUL AND HAS LOTS OF WEALTH IT WAS FUCKED BY THE PEOPLE THEN WHAT DO ,WE DO WE LET THE ONLY THING THAT FUCKED IRAQ INTO NZ , THE PEOPLE.

[Timber020]

Few native nations got any sort of fair deal once the european settlers hit the shores. And to say that by giving one chief a few blankets and muskets for 10,000 acres of land that may or may not belong to him in the first place to be a fair trade is a joke.
Land was often "sold" under the threat of it being taken otherwise, as it often was.

Look what happened in Parihaka. Nothing like killing peaceful protesters. Men women and childeren because you cant get your way.

The safas made the mess in south africa, and have chose to leave the nest rather than lie in it

[Ixion]

I was referring to the 'proper' invasion in the 12th century by the Anglo/Normans, who I understood to be loyal to the then English crown. My understanding being that they were sent there to get rid of Diarmait McMurcda (my spelling may be way off), who, if memory serves me correct, as leader of the northern Irish at that time decided that he'd no longer recognised the English crown (Henry Tudor?).

Northern Ireland has a history as complex and bloody as the Palestines I guess. So we may both be on to something.

Hm. Sort of. Henry Tudor (Hen VII) was 15/16C. The original "pale" (pale means a wall) in the 12C was not originally anything to do with the crown, which made no claim to Ireland. It was a private filibuster organised by Richard fitz Gilbert de Clare (Strongbow) , Sieur d'Orbec and Bienfaite, lord of Striguil and earl of Pembroke. He, a typical Norman robber baron, had been excluded from his eorldom of Pembroke by Henry II (the Lion King, of Anjou, no relation to Henry Tudor) because of his (Strongbow's) support for King Stephen in the Time of Terror. He was also deeply in debt to Aaron the Jew of Norfolk.

At this time Dermot MacMurchada, king of Leinster had been deposed from his throne (no idea who by). He trotted of to Hen II who (cunning old sod he was) told him 'Piss off, but if any of the lads want to take it on for what they can get out it, they're welcome to have a go".

Strongbow, reckoned he had little to lose and much to win ,especially as Dermort sweetened the pot with the offer of his daughter, a nice bit of crumpet by all accounts (incidentally he wasn't called Strongbow because he was good at archery). So he gathered together some of his old mates from the Welsh Wars of 1164 (who had themselves been sent packing by Rhys ap Gruyyfud and were looking for somewhere else to loot).

Pretty soon Strongbow and co had more or less taken over the place (or the bit around dublin anyway, the rest was too boggy), and Strongbow began to get idea of setting up as King on his own account. Hen II heard of this (as most else), and showed why he was called the Lion King. He descended on Ireland in force in double quick time, and told Strongbow "toe the line or I'll chop your head off and feed your balls to the rats" . Strongbow had the sense to yield, cut a good deal with the King whereby Strongbow and mates kept the land (hereafter called the Pale or Settlement), and Henry retained the title of Lord (not King) of Ireland. Henry VIII was the first to claim the title of King of Ireland, after he fell out with the Pope.

But the first Protestants would not appear for another 300 odd years.

The Normans were Roman Catholic, the Irish were Celtic Catholic (sod that bastard Augustine), and the English nominally Roman Catholic, in reality mainly Pagan.

[Kickaha]

Look what happened in Parihaka. Nothing like killing peaceful protesters. Men women and childeren because you cant get your way.

Every history of Parihaka I have read says nothing about "Men,Women and children being killed can you produce a source to back your claim up?

The main reason I ask is because I've seen this claimed before and did some looking up and it seems that although a great many people believe that to be the case that it didn't really happen, I am willing to stand corrected though.

[Thumper]

I THINK YOU GUYS ARE THE WRONG KINDA IMMIGRANT AND I THINK YOU SHOULD STAY IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY AND SLEEP IN THE BED YOU MADE, I DONT BELIEVE THE GENERAL SA RACIST ATTITUDE HAS CHANGED AS A WHOLE, AND IM NOT SAYING I LIKE THE BLACKS IN YOUR COUNTRY EITHER.
GO HOME AND FIX YOUR COUNTRY ,SAME WITH IRAQIS I DONT THINK ANY SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN THIS COUNTRY , IRAQ IS BEUATIFUL AND HAS LOTS OF WEALTH IT WAS FUCKED BY THE PEOPLE THEN WHAT DO ,WE DO WE LET THE ONLY THING THAT FUCKED IRAQ INTO NZ , THE PEOPLE.

Generalisation is what got countries such as South Africa and Iraq into the shit that they found themselves in. Attitudes such as “I don’t want you in my space because you are different”, “I chose to associate only with people who think the same way I do” and “I feel threatened by those who are different/skilled/wealthy/educated/hardworking/etc.” were rife in the old South Africa. These attitudes exist in most communities but are generally not admitted to by those who feel that way. It is reprehensible when the beliefs of a minority are allowed to dominate a majority as they did in both SA and Iraq. WINJA, as a generalist you would have felt right at home there .

[WINJA]

Generalisation is what got countries such as South Africa and Iraq into the shit that they found themselves in. Attitudes such as “I don’t want you in my space because you are different”, “I chose to associate only with people who think the same way I do” and “I feel threatened by those who are different/skilled/wealthy/educated/hardworking/etc.” were rife in the old South Africa. These attitudes exist in most communities but are generally not admitted to by those who feel that way. It is reprehensible when the beliefs of a minority are allowed to dominate a majority as they did in both SA and Iraq. WINJA, as a generalist you would have felt right at home there .

THATS JUST GENERALLY HOW I FEEL BASED ON MY EXPERIENCES WITH SAFS , THERE IS AN EXCEPTION AND HES A FRIEND OF MINE WHOS SAF AND I BELIEVE HES TRULY DIFFERENT THAN 90% OF THE POPULATION. DOENSNT MEAN THEY SHOULD LET ANY MORE SAFS INTO NZ, THEY SHOULD STAY THERE AND FIX THAT BEUTIFUL COUNTRY. ID LIKE TO SEE MORE IMMIGRANTS FROM FUNCTIONAL COUNTRIES LIKE CANADA, USA , AUSSIE, ENGLAND , JAPAN , THAILAND ETC

[Patrick]

Wasn't Iraq because that nasty Saddam guy had WMD and was a threat blah blah blah,except that turned out to be a complete load of bullshit

Shouldn't have been, because the Yanks and Poms gave them (Iraq) WMD's when they were having the scrap with Iran in the 80's.

Saddam used a few on his countrymen Kurds etc, but there are a lot unaccounted for, apparently (so I've read somewhere...). Made me wonder...They've gotta be somewhere...

[Lias]

Man this thread has gone off course (par for the course around here thou I guess )

With regards to the AWB, I lost any respect I had for them when they failed to launch a gorilla war after the ANC took power. Some like to view the ANC & Mandela through rose coloured glasses, but the fact remains that Mandela lead the ANC's militant wing (MK) in a violent campaign against Apartheid rule, and they can only be classified as a Terrorist organisation. However at least they had the balls to stand up and FIGHT for what they believed in. If the AWB had gone underground and gone to war against the ANC government, then I'd have some respect for them but they really just proved to be a bunch of gutless blowhards.

[v.ros`]

damn thats sad....

hope it doesnt happen in Zambia....

[Pixie]

IM NOT SAYING THERES NO RACISM IN NZ , BUT AS A COUNTRY OUR GOVERNMENT INVITED ISLANDERS INTO THIS COUNTRY WHERE THE CULTURE AND GENERAL ATTITUDE FROM THE SA PEOPLE I SEE IN THIS COUNTRY IS THAT BLACKS WERENT EVEN WELCOME IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY , AND NOW YOU GUYS ARE BITCHEN AND CRYING WHEN THE WORM TURNS , I THINK YOU GUYS ARE THE WRONG KINDA IMMIGRANT AND I THINK YOU SHOULD STAY IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY AND SLEEP IN THE BED YOU MADE, I DONT BELIEVE THE GENERAL SA RACIST ATTITUDE HAS CHANGED AS A WHOLE, AND IM NOT SAYING I LIKE THE BLACKS IN YOUR COUNTRY EITHER.
GO HOME AND FIX YOUR COUNTRY ,SAME WITH IRAQIS I DONT THINK ANY SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN THIS COUNTRY , IRAQ IS BEUATIFUL AND HAS LOTS OF WEALTH IT WAS FUCKED BY THE PEOPLE THEN WHAT DO ,WE DO WE LET THE ONLY THING THAT FUCKED IRAQ INTO NZ , THE PEOPLE.

Well, If it'll get Clark a UN post when she retires,I guess this immigration policy will continue

[Biff]

but the fact remains that Mandela lead the ANC's militant wing (MK) in a violent campaign against Apartheid rule,

Sorry mate - I don't buy that. The man was awarded a nobel peace prize for his constant calls for peaceful protest, and because the international community recognised this. The overwhelming majority of the ANC's violence taking place during his 20+ years imprisonment on peacfull (inciting open democracy and freedom of speech) charges.

" Together, we join two distinguished South Africans, the late Chief Albert Luthuli and His Grace Archbishop Desmond Tutu, to whose seminal contributions to the peaceful struggle against the evil system of apartheid you paid well-deserved tribute by awarding them the Nobel Peace Prize."

Mandela'a acceptance speech to the Nobel Peace Committee.

When the ANC was banned after the Sharpeville massacre in 1960, he was detained until 1961 when he went underground to lead a campaign for a new national convention.

Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK), the military wing of the ANC, was born the same year that Mandela was imprisoned (1961).



Anyway - in this day and age it's apparently ok for terrorists to become politicans. In the UK Matrin McGuiness, a murdering bastard during his days with the IRA is now minister for education in Northern ireland. Go figure!!

[Lias]

Sorry mate - I don't buy that. The man was awarded a nobel peace prize for his constant calls for peaceful protest, and because the international community recognised this. The overwhelming majority of the ANC's violence taking place during his 20+ years imprisonment on peacfull (inciting open democracy and freedom of speech) charges.

Initially committed to non-violence, he later became involved in the planning of underground armed resistance activities, such as sabotage.....In 1961, he became the leader of the ANC's armed wing Umkhonto we Sizwe (translated as Spear of the Nation, also abbreviated MK), which he co-founded. He coordinated a sabotage campaign against military, government and civilian targets, and made plans for a possible guerrilla war if sabotage failed to end apartheid. He also raised funds for MK abroad, and arranged for paramilitary training, visiting various African governments.

Thats from his biography on Wikipedia.

Anyway - in this day and age it's apparently ok for terrorists to become politicans. In the UK Matrin McGuiness, a murdering bastard during his days with the IRA is now minister for education in Northern ireland. Go figure!!

Lets not forget Dubya.. I'm sure he's guilty of crimes against humanity.

[Lou Girardin]

Every history of Parihaka I have read says nothing about "Men,Women and children being killed can you produce a source to back your claim up?

The main reason I ask is because I've seen this claimed before and did some looking up and it seems that although a great many people believe that to be the case that it didn't really happen, I am willing to stand corrected though.

The "Holocaust in Taranaki" it comes from the same sources as the '80s "one in four women will be sexually abused before they're 16, half by their fathers"
Truth doesn't matter, sound bites do.