Four dead and two hurt today

[trustme]

Go to page 8
https://www.transport.govt.nz/resour...clecrashfacts/

[pritch]

Ok, so we have no validated statistics then. What does that tell you ?

What that tells me is that you aren't paying attention. Try and keep up. If you chime in half way through a thread without reading it you can end up looking silly.

[scumdog]

I'm interested in the proportion of these numbers that were caused by a 4 wheeled vehicle fucking it up. Every day you see car and truck drivers on their phone . A bit difficult to send a text when you're riding a Hayabusa or a GN125. My 5 cents

From my experience it seems to be 8 or 9 times out of 10 it is solely the bike riders fault, sure a vehicle might be involved but only because a rider got it wrong and crashed into one.

This 'those bloody cagers' battle-cry is getting a tad lame.

[nzspokes]

From my experience it seems to be 8 or 9 times out of 10 it is solely the bike riders fault, sure a vehicle might be involved but only because a rider got it wrong and crashed into one.

This 'those bloody cagers' battle-cry is getting a tad lame.

Is it time to blame the Cheese cutters yet?

[Berries]

Ok, so we have no validated statistics then. What does that tell you ?

We still don't know how many cars / trucks etc were involved and, the numbers are meaningless without those statistics included.

By my brief reckoning indeed ....

For the hard of reading 16 crashes involved only the bike and 29 crashes involved the bike and another vehicle. In 15 of those the rider was 'at fault', in 14 the other driver was 'at fault'.

Pretty simplistic breakdown based on the crash database to show some of the reality that many riders still refuse to accept. Could go in to a lot more detail but a) people won't change their view hence the 'discussion' will soon go downhill and b) you fuckers don't pay my wages.

Is it time to blame the Cheese cutters yet?

Don't forget those goddamn tourists.

[nzspokes]

Well, perhaps Rastus can confirm ACC claims, but figured I would jump in with some numbers as well. Seems like an annual thing.

45 fatal crashes in 2017 involving motorbikes. Down from 55 the year before and 53 the year before that. Through the 80’s it was triple digits every year, peaking at 148 in 1987. Fell throughout the 90’s to 42 in 1999 then dropped in to the 30’s every year from 2000 until 2007 when it hit 40. Went to 50 in 2008 and has been bouncing around since then with only one year in the 30’s. Many reasons for those changes and no real need to go off the deep end due to one bad weekend.

So 45 fatal crashes last year, 50 bikes. Five crashes involved two bikes. In four of those crashes all eight bikes were Harleys which I found interesting and probably suggests something. So in order of appearance -

16 Harley
7 Suzuki
7 Yamaha
5 Honda
4 Triumphs
2 each BMW, Ducati and Kawasaki
1 each Can Am, Moto Guzzi, MV Augusta, SYM and TGB (mopeds)

As always, without actual data as to how many of each type of bike is on the road these figures are rather meaningless, but good to point fingers. Even with the number registered we don’t know how many km each one does, in what conditions etc etc etc. So you've got to be careful when someone says X is worse than Y because Y could be worse than X, it depends what is being pushed and by whom. Hello ACC. Note, no fault is implied in any of this, it is just the bikes involved.

I’m going to assume we can call all the Harleys cruisers here, so based on the model recorded I would say this –

21 cruisers
20 sport
4 off road style
2 proper off road
2 moped
1 Can am

The sports class is actually a bit vague, I have lumped your VTR250, XJ600 and a K1200 in there as well. It is everything that is not lean back cruiser or stand on pegs on gravel stylee.

So yeah, a few interesting things jump out. Nine out of ten crashes were on a dry road. You’d normally expect more wet road crashes than that so it does suggest a bit of fair weather riding. One quarter of the crashes were on a Sunday which is high as well. Alcohol and/or drugs were a factor in nearly half of all of these crashes. And we argue about hi-viz.

I could go on but Coro is about to start.

Thanks for the post. Very interesting.

Apart from Coro.

[SaferRides]

My bad, I couldn't open the link. If I look silly then I deserve to.

I'll take another look now I have some time up my sleeve. Don't be too hard on me, been a long day....

Don't be hard on yourself, it's good to see people other than the regulars joining in.

Sent from my HUAWEI SCL-L02 using Tapatalk

[rastuscat]

Same old story. Debate going on as to who is at fault.

Who is at fault doesn't matter much to your broken arm, broken leg and ruptured spleen.

Okay. So everything is everyone else's fault. I'm going to continue riding my bike so as to avoid becoming someone's victim.

[RDJ]

No, fatals still cost ACC a shed-load. They pay surviving partners based on the dead person's earnings.

From ACC's website:
We pay 80% of the deceased's earnings.

We’ll keep making payments to a partner until either:
- five years from the date payments started
- the youngest child of the deceased in your care turns 18.

That adds up. Whether it is more or less than the medical bills, I don't know.

It's more. (Inpatient) medical costs in NZ are comparatively low; fatality medical (pathology) costs lower. Largely because we don't have fuckwit NCIS-types and ambo-chasing contingency-paid lawyers. But I digress. The big costs come with post-incident rehab, income support, and childrearing as above. Largely because no-fault compo means arrant idiots pay literally none of the costs for their drunken / drugged (it usually but not always is thus-fueled) stupidity. The rest of us do.

[OddDuck]

Same old story. Debate going on as to who is at fault.

Who is at fault doesn't matter much to your broken arm, broken leg and ruptured spleen.

Okay. So everything is everyone else's fault. I'm going to continue riding my bike so as to avoid becoming someone's victim.

Precisely, you can be as correct as you like from your hospital bed or the morgue*. I'd rather keep riding thanks.

* still working on this bit

[OddDuck]

It's more. (Inpatient) medical costs in NZ are comparatively low; fatality medical (pathology) costs lower. Largely because we don't have fuckwit NCIS-types and ambo-chasing contingency-paid lawyers. But I digress. The big costs come with post-incident rehab, income support, and childrearing as above. Largely because no-fault compo means arrant idiots pay literally none of the costs for their drunken / drugged (it usually but not always is thus-fueled) stupidity. The rest of us do.

Yes... BUT drivers / riders found at fault are dealt with via the legal system. There are penalties. We can argue that they're ridiculously light or whatever, but there are fines, bans on driving etc which can be enforced.

Also but (excuse being pedantic) the arrant idiots pay their share just like the rest of us, unless they're running dark with no wof, rego, insurance, license etc... and there are penalties for that too. They do pay progressively higher insurance premiums as their crash count goes up.

[russd7]

lets face it, when two bikes collide head on in good conditions on a fairly good condition road it is because one has seriously fucked up, hard to blame that bloody cager for that one

[AllanB]

lets face it, when two bikes collide head on in good conditions on a fairly good condition road it is because one has seriously fucked up, hard to blame that bloody cager for that one

Or both overcooking a corner


My mindset when thinking of passing prior to a corner is simple - if another bike is coming around that corner at speed do I still have time to pass. This thought takes a micro second, most times the answer is 'NO' and I sit back and wait. After all it is just a corner right? It will be there next weekend.

[rastuscat]

Or both overcooking a corner


My mindset when thinking of passing prior to a corner is simple - if another bike is coming around that corner at speed do I still have time to pass. This thought takes a micro second, most times the answer is 'NO' and I sit back and wait. After all it is just a corner right? It will be there next weekend.

Far too sensible. It'll never catch on.

[pete376403]

Yes... BUT drivers / riders found at fault are dealt with via the legal system. There are penalties. We can argue that they're ridiculously light or whatever, but there are fines, bans on driving etc which can be enforced.

Also but (excuse being pedantic) the arrant idiots pay their share just like the rest of us, unless they're running dark with no wof, rego, insurance, license etc... and there are penalties for that too.

Penalties for that? A young man my grand-daughter associates with has no licence, and a shitbox BMW318 car with no reg and no WOF and obviously no insurance (so tough shit on the driver of the expensive car that he one day may crash into.) He's been stopped many times, often after 10 at night with other non licensed people in the car. Every time - told to get home and do something about the licence, wof and reg within 28 days (which of course he doesn't). Meanwhile I cant even get off a parking ticket.