Four dead and two hurt today

[pritch]

I'm surprised Pritch hasn't already done that.

Nah. Trump's got enought to worry about just keeping track of his idiot kids.

[dangerous]

haven't read any of the posts...

While I was at a bikers funeral with a few others here... yes 4 others died, just like to add there was another the day before and the day after a guy I knew in Aussie...

sort ya shit out people and pull ya heads in before they get taken off

safe travels all...

[FJRider]

Why not ride wearing a pair of binoculars up to your eyes? You could just move them about like you suggest & would be the same effect.

Never worked for me. But if it works for you ...

[Berries]

Hey Rastus , can you confirm that the highest motorcycle acc claimants are as follows

1/ Sport bike riders
2/ Scooters
3/ Lams

Cruisers ie Harleys etc are down the list

Well, perhaps Rastus can confirm ACC claims, but figured I would jump in with some numbers as well. Seems like an annual thing.

45 fatal crashes in 2017 involving motorbikes. Down from 55 the year before and 53 the year before that. Through the 80’s it was triple digits every year, peaking at 148 in 1987. Fell throughout the 90’s to 42 in 1999 then dropped in to the 30’s every year from 2000 until 2007 when it hit 40. Went to 50 in 2008 and has been bouncing around since then with only one year in the 30’s. Many reasons for those changes and no real need to go off the deep end due to one bad weekend.

So 45 fatal crashes last year, 50 bikes. Five crashes involved two bikes. In four of those crashes all eight bikes were Harleys which I found interesting and probably suggests something. So in order of appearance -

16 Harley
7 Suzuki
7 Yamaha
5 Honda
4 Triumphs
2 each BMW, Ducati and Kawasaki
1 each Can Am, Moto Guzzi, MV Augusta, SYM and TGB (mopeds)

As always, without actual data as to how many of each type of bike is on the road these figures are rather meaningless, but good to point fingers. Even with the number registered we don’t know how many km each one does, in what conditions etc etc etc. So you've got to be careful when someone says X is worse than Y because Y could be worse than X, it depends what is being pushed and by whom. Hello ACC. Note, no fault is implied in any of this, it is just the bikes involved.

I’m going to assume we can call all the Harleys cruisers here, so based on the model recorded I would say this –

21 cruisers
20 sport
4 off road style
2 proper off road
2 moped
1 Can am

The sports class is actually a bit vague, I have lumped your VTR250, XJ600 and a K1200 in there as well. It is everything that is not lean back cruiser or stand on pegs on gravel stylee.

So yeah, a few interesting things jump out. Nine out of ten crashes were on a dry road. You’d normally expect more wet road crashes than that so it does suggest a bit of fair weather riding. One quarter of the crashes were on a Sunday which is high as well. Alcohol and/or drugs were a factor in nearly half of all of these crashes. And we argue about hi-viz.

I could go on but Coro is about to start.

[SaferRides]

Hard to believe that alcohol was a factor in half of the crashes. Although if you go past almost any rural bar on a Sunday, there will be a fair few bikes parked.

When they say it was a factor, does that mean there was some alcohol present, or the rider was over the legal limit?

[Berries]

Hard to believe that alcohol was a factor in half of the crashes. Although if you go past almost any rural bar on a Sunday, there will be a fair few bikes parked.

I knew someone would pick me up on that as soon as I posted it bugger it. Alcohol includes drugs there. Ten of the 45 crashes had someone with alcohol over the limit while 12 were drugs. Edited the post to correct that.

[Taxythingy]

I guess fatals cost ACC fuck all. Surviving the off is where the costs really kick in.

No, fatals still cost ACC a shed-load. They pay surviving partners based on the dead person's earnings.

From ACC's website:
We pay 80% of the deceased's earnings.

We’ll keep making payments to a partner until either:
- five years from the date payments started
- the youngest child of the deceased in your care turns 18.

That adds up. Whether it is more or less than the medical bills, I don't know.

[Moi]

A little more about "looking" and "seeing"...

[Berries]

So here's one of them.

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/west-c...eath-passenger

And here's another.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/108...d-in-collision

I am genuinely surprised nobody had posted this seeing as a week ago people were getting all hot and bothered about it.

[rastuscat]

And here's another.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/108...d-in-collision

I am genuinely surprised nobody had posted this seeing as a week ago people were getting all hot and bothered about it.

That's the thing. Big media storm then everyone moves on.

[Stylo]

Well, perhaps Rastus can confirm ACC claims, but figured I would jump in with some numbers as well. Seems like an annual thing.

45 fatal crashes in 2017 involving motorbikes. Down from 55 the year before and 53 the year before that. Through the 80’s it was triple digits every year, peaking at 148 in 1987. Fell throughout the 90’s to 42 in 1999 then dropped in to the 30’s every year from 2000 until 2007 when it hit 40. Went to 50 in 2008 and has been bouncing around since then with only one year in the 30’s. Many reasons for those changes and no real need to go off the deep end due to one bad weekend.

So 45 fatal crashes last year, 50 bikes. Five crashes involved two bikes. In four of those crashes all eight bikes were Harleys which I found interesting and probably suggests something. So in order of appearance -

16 Harley
7 Suzuki
7 Yamaha
5 Honda
4 Triumphs
2 each BMW, Ducati and Kawasaki
1 each Can Am, Moto Guzzi, MV Augusta, SYM and TGB (mopeds)

As always, without actual data as to how many of each type of bike is on the road these figures are rather meaningless, but good to point fingers. Even with the number registered we don’t know how many km each one does, in what conditions etc etc etc. So you've got to be careful when someone says X is worse than Y because Y could be worse than X, it depends what is being pushed and by whom. Hello ACC. Note, no fault is implied in any of this, it is just the bikes involved.

I’m going to assume we can call all the Harleys cruisers here, so based on the model recorded I would say this –

21 cruisers
20 sport
4 off road style
2 proper off road
2 moped
1 Can am

The sports class is actually a bit vague, I have lumped your VTR250, XJ600 and a K1200 in there as well. It is everything that is not lean back cruiser or stand on pegs on gravel stylee.

So yeah, a few interesting things jump out. Nine out of ten crashes were on a dry road. You’d normally expect more wet road crashes than that so it does suggest a bit of fair weather riding. One quarter of the crashes were on a Sunday which is high as well. Alcohol and/or drugs were a factor in nearly half of all of these crashes. And we argue about hi-viz.

I could go on but Coro is about to start.

I'm interested in the proportion of these numbers that were caused by a 4 wheeled vehicle fucking it up. Every day you see car and truck drivers on their phone . A bit difficult to send a text when you're riding a Hayabusa or a GN125. My 5 cents

[FJRider]

... When they say it was a factor, does that mean there was some alcohol present, or the rider was over the legal limit?

10 km/hr over the speed limit and "speed" is a factor. Just as "under the influence" does not necessarily mean over the limit ... just "A factor" ...

[trustme]

I'm interested in the proportion of these numbers that were caused by a 4 wheeled vehicle fucking it up. Every day you see car and truck drivers on their phone . A bit difficult to send a text when you're riding a Hayabusa or a GN125. My 5 cents

3 riders, 1 pillion killed not 1 car involved.To be blunt rider error in all cases. Over 50% of motorcycle accidents are single vehicle ie no car involved

I'd ask for my money back

[Berries]

I'm interested in the proportion of these numbers that were caused by a 4 wheeled vehicle fucking it up. Every day you see car and truck drivers on their phone . A bit difficult to send a text when you're riding a Hayabusa or a GN125. My 5 cents

When asked about fault in motorbike crashes I always think of a third, third and third and as it happens that is roughly how this looks. To be fully accurate you would need to read the full reports and even then, one of the main witnesses isn't around to be interviewed so it will never be 100 percent.

By my brief reckoning 16 crashes involved a bike and no other moving vehicles, 15 crashes involved more than one vehicle and the bike rider would appear to be primarily at fault and the remaining 14 crashes involved more than one vehicle and the primary fault would appear to rest with the other vehicle.

Fault is a curious thing though. I am of the view that in the majority of crashes where the other vehicle is considered to be at fault the rider could have got away with it if they had been concentrating on things.

[Stylo]

When asked about fault in motorbike crashes I always think of a third, third and third and as it happens that is roughly how this looks. To be fully accurate you would need to read the full reports and even then, one of the main witnesses isn't around to be interviewed so it will never be 100 percent.

By my brief reckoning 16 crashes involved a bike and no other moving vehicles, 15 crashes involved more than one vehicle and the bike rider would appear to be primarily at fault and the remaining 14 crashes involved more than one vehicle and the primary fault would appear to rest with the other vehicle.

Fault is a curious thing though. I am of the view that in the majority of crashes where the other vehicle is considered to be at fault the rider could have got away with it if they had been concentrating on things.

Ok, so we have no validated statistics then. What does that tell you ?

We still don't know how many cars / trucks etc were involved and, the numbers are meaningless without those statistics included.

By my brief reckoning indeed ....