60minutes tonight (tv3)! (17 October 2005)

[Bartman10]

I didn't see the programme, I was cleaning out the carbs on the race bike - give me hi octane mmmm.... And I don't have a TV.

But it is a complete and utter con.

100 years of chemical thermodynamics has shown that all chemical reactions require energy balance. If he wants to dispute this he needs to show, conclusively and beyond reasonable doubt, in a controlled experiment under close supervision that he has succeeded. In addition a theoretical frame-work needs to be established that does not contradict past and present experimental observation.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. He has not provided it.

He is a con absolutely and totally, and I will maintain that position until conclusive evidence presented in an appropriate forum (i.e. not a crap 15 minute TV show) points to the contrary.

To say that science is in the pocket of big oil is total carp. Anyone who says that has no understanding or experience of the science funding system in New Zealand.

[Lou Girardin]

I suspect he's using a water/methanol mix, which will be odourless and look like water. That would explain the difficulty starting it. The carb mods would big main jets for methanol use.
When it's independently tested by the ESR or similar, I'll buy shares.

[:rofl:]

I just had a convo with a workmate about this,
yknow how that car dude came along and said aww yeah theres no alternate source's of fuel going in there. well, my workmate suggested the dodgy rider dude was carrying petrol on him (as well as whats in the pipes perhaps) and he cleverly put petrol into the engine

(or that dodgy canister on the handlebars had a 'secret compartment' which seems the most obvious.)

[F5 Dave]

I didn’t bother to read several pages of drivel but it is a complete hoax. A year to get a patent. -- More like gives you time to get hard of thinking investors knocking at your door.

Energy has to come from somewhere, so are you converting the water into hydrogen? Not with a carby tweek buddy.

My pick is a small LPG cylinder inside the engine piped to the manifold, enough to get the bike to almost start & run, the water will be thick enough that not much will get through to upset the bike running.

[Pixie]

Nah what I meant was in terms of electrolysing then getting hydrogen out, cooling the mix back down and then warming up, somehow makes the water components (H and O) more prone to seperating in the combustion chamber. Might do some shit like when you get electrons moving around shells and stuff... 6th form physics here >_<

I really don't know lol... just a stab in the dark.

The only reason electrolysing water into H2 & O allows the result to be used as a fuel is because the electrical energy is absorbed inthe process of breaking the molecular bonds.
ie the H2 & O mixture is at a higher potential energy level than the H2O it was seperated from.
This can not happen in the same machine that is using it as fuel as that would be a perpetual motion machine and it would make Mr Newton unhappy.
The con man is not the first NZer to try to sell this bullshit

[Pixie]

I'm not surprised by the number of responses showing a degree of belief in this crap.Not considering the abysmal level of science education in our schools and the hippy wannabe "science is evil" atitude of much of NZ's population.

That bike would go round the carpark on the petrol that could remain in the floatbowl.What if the little tank had a false petrol chamber in it ?

If you still believe it's true,I have some property for sale at a bargain price:
Auckland CBD: section with a phallic symbol and casino on site

[Silage]

Well I reakon he was quite good. When faced by a TV3 interviewer who had not prepared well and had no understanding of internal combustion or science, he held it together quite well. But a complete hoax.

I'm with Geoffm, F5Dave, Pixie and others (sceptics). Water has a relatively low state of energy. You have to feed energy into it to eg split it into its components of hydrogen and oxygen. When these are burned (such as in an internal combustion engine) the exact same amout of energy is released as was put in to split them apart (one of the laws of thermodynamicals).

I was waiting for him to say that the only emissions were - wait for it - water. This would be tremendous. You pour all this water into this little box, connect the wires, wait for x minutes and out comes (transmogrified) water. Pour this into your bike and this water burns into - wait for it - water. But no, it turned out that the emissions were something closely resembling a petrol engine. It really is magic.

BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS

[Gixxer 4 ever]

I
My pick is a small LPG cylinder inside the engine piped to the manifold, enough to get the bike to almost start & run, the water will be thick enough that not much will get through to upset the bike running.

Yep I have stayed out of this till now cos I didn't want to make a fool of myself. I "think" this has to be a fake. The LPG thing sounds like the go to me. A canister in the crank with an electric servo or something and a bit of milling in the block to get it to the inlet chamber. You can missed the water in with it and it will run. It would be hard to start the LPG and that is what happened. The omissions pointed to fake to me.
So we will see in 12 months.

[Marmoot]

I Hope it does not come through.
Imagine that, if it does, everyone will use water for their vehicles.

And, after a few years, we'll be short of water like we are short of petrol now!

[Bartman10]

Both honda and renult have demonstrated water powered cars. Back in the 40s someone built an electrolytic carb which did almost the same thing.

Here is a link to the UK press releases for the british version.

http://www.invest.uktradeinvest.gov....PoweredCar.cfm

Quite a different concept 2-7. This car still requires petrol. It's just redirecting some of it's waste energy.

[Monsterbishi]

http://www.biosmeanslife.com/index.htm
http://www.biosmeanslife.com/home.html

For his two websites, both must have been made by his 'security team' or their pre-school children perhaps.

[Motu]

Reminds me of when Gardiner had a diesel engine at a show suspended from the roof by a chain,and it ran for the 3 days of the show non stop with no visable means of fuel supply,they asked the public to submit reasons for how it was done.All the usual hollow chains,hidden fuel tanks in the sump etc,but Gardiner denide all claims...no one got it in the end.

It was running on it's own sump oil.

[TLDV8]

I havn't read the whole thread and only saw part of the 60 minutes..it said water based didn't it and then the methonol was added at 1/3 ratio,which the sniffer detected.

[Slingshot]

From the website:

However, to produce hydrogen as a fuel has been marred with contradiction as in order to create clean fuel you create harmful bi products into the atmosphere, the worst being CO2.

Everyone stop breathing, we can't be seen to be adding to the worst of all harmful bi products, CO2.

This guy is full to the brim with crap.


Chances are the tank already had petrol in it, he poured a little water into the tank which would have floated on top of the petrol, then he started the bike and rode away.

[Mental Trousers]

The thing that amazes me is that virtually nothing was revealed in that show, yet people are willing to either believe it or, just as bad, totally disbelieve it. But there's a complete lack of evidence either way.

Scientific knowledge is incomplete. Every single day there are new scientific discoveries made that are continually adding to our knowledge of the Universe. Nobody can say with any certainty that it's a fabrication or not until the process (or lack of one) is opened up to the public and dissected. Maybe this guy has actually stumbled on something. But then again, maybe he is taking everyone for a ride.

I *hope* there is a way to use water as fuel, but whether this guy has cracked it or not will have to wait until the process is revealed (or not).