Moeraki crash

[eldog]

Yeah, who does she think she is, coming all the way from Cromwell and driving on OUR roads!!

I have recently been out on your roads, I survived, thrice last year.

the rest of the South Island had better watch out this year.

[TheDemonLord]

You got me ... I didn't ...

That's the funny thing about making snarky comments when not reading information provided, it has a nasty habit of making you look foolish.

We ... ??? Do you see passports ??? do the passports tell you what type roads they have experience driving on .. ??? How good a driver they are and how many years of driving experience they've had .. ?? Do they tell you what roads they intend to travel on in NZ .. ??

Their passport is attributed to a Country, naming a person. It may list a place of birth. It may list places they have visited (Some countries do not stamp passports)

Literally a 2 second Google Search

So, it appears we DO have some pretty good numbers as to where the Tourists are coming from. And because we have access to the magical world of Google, we've got a pretty good idea of what the driving conditions in those places are like. I'll expand on this further below

My point of view is ... (almost) everybody is giving the overseas visitors a hard time for shitty driving, even to the point of being racist about it. Naming groups that they believe are the issue AS A NATIONAL GROUP. Most just say "Another bloody overseas driver killing kiwi's ... send them all home" or similar comment ... and ignore the fact that Kiwi's are killing more kiwis than the visitors. All hyped up by the media (sells papers probably). Time more people spoke up against this trend ... but I guess it takes the heat off Kiwi shitty drivers ... and there is quite a few of them. Darwin's theory isn't working as fast as I would personally like ...

Okay - Why is that? For starters they ARE over-represented in Crash stats compared to their relative size in the Population. Secondly we see similarities between various accidents and finally we see nothing has been done about the problem.

Getting back to where people come from - top of the list - Australia (no surprise there) - who we have a very strong similarity to - we have mostly the same Road Rules, Same cars, we drive on the same side of the road, we've both been driving (as a nation) for approximately the same length of time, have similar licencing requirements etc.

Next 2 are China and the US both of which drive on the Wrong side of the road - but lets compare the 2 - for starters the US has a relatively mature driving culture, similar vehicles etc. China on the other hand has only really had private Car ownership since 1985, and even then - the rate of Car Ownership is one quarter of the rate of ownership here (The US incidentally, right behind NZ in terms of ownership rates), then we need to factor in that testing vs Bribery in China is a thing.

Those factors of:

1: Only recently being able to drive as a private citizen
2: Not likely to have owned a car or had much driving experience
3: Driving on the wrong side of the road
4: Driving standards at the point of licencing not consistent due to corruption

Are causal in the pattern that we see of Tourist drivers. I want to be clear - there is nothing about 'race' in those statements, so you can put the 'RACISM' card back down. Add in the fact that they are the most numerous group of tourists after Australia is also relevant.

It seems to me that most people can accept Tourists being involved in Accidents so long as they feel that the driver would be able to meet the NZ licencing requirements in terms of basic car control and road-craft. Where People are upset is when they see drivers who demonstrably don't meet that standard (and we both agree, it's not particularly high) and yet due to having a licence of suspicious validity (ie it was paid for instead of being earnt) then people get rightfully upset.

There IS a problem . A large portion of New Zealander's are shitty drivers. And the do nothing to improve themselves. Do not even admit they might be at fault ... "it's not my fault ... it was an accident" is a common response ... have you heard that before .. ??? SAID it even .. ??

No one is disputing that, so why bring it up? The 2 statements are not mutually exclusive:

If I say "Some Tourists are bad drivers" that doesn't automatically mean "Kiwis are gods gift to the motoring world" - it is possible to make both statements:

"Some Kiwis are bad drivers" and "Some tourists are also bad drivers

Nobody "Forces" them to drive anywhere. If bus or rail tours were wanted on a scale you suggested ... more than a few years ago ... it may well have happened.

Okay then - how'd you get around NZ without driving? The options are:

1: You don't
2: You take a bus that takes 2-3 times as long to get anywhere.

When you consider that for most Tourists (excluding Australia) it's a minimum of a 14 hour flight (and significant financial input) to get here and you only have a limited time, Driving quickly becomes the only option.

As for if 'Rail was wanted blah blah blah' - I didn't say that the number of tourists meant that it would be economically viable, I'm saying that with rail NOT being an alternative, the only option is to Drive.

Nonetheless ... they DO come here to DRIVE around NZ.

I know - I believe that is a key factor in the problem. Some who as you say 'DO come here to DRIVE around NZ' perhaps shouldn't be driving

Not to take a bus (well ok ... many still do) as a base form of transport. Campervans and SUV rentals are popular worldwide. A trend that isn't going away any time soon. And New Zealand firms are cashing in (in every sense of the word) on it ...

I know they are popular Worldwide, but Worldwide there are alternatives - I've travelled all over Europe - never had to hire a Car - it was a Train ride from major city to major city then a MTS to get to where I needed to be in that city then a short walk to get to where I needed to be.

Without that as an option, Everyone (regardless of skill) has to drive to get around NZ.

Few (if any) changes will be made as to the regulations covering overseas driver's license validity in NZ any time soon. To many International conventions NZ is a party too ... demanding it remains as they are.

And I believe I said that most of the proposed solutions weren't workable.... So again, you bring up things that I'm neither disagreeing with or have outright stated.

However, simply stating that the current solutions aren't practical is not the same as saying that there isn't a problem or that NZers are the problem anyway, Again - the more you dismiss something that is an issue the louder and more ugly the complaints are going to get - your choice.

[Berries]

A graph I found a few years ago that I used in a presentation about (one reason) why Chinese driver crash involvement is increasing in NZ.

[Jeeper]

I installed a dashcam in my Jeep over the weekend, and today captured this wonderful driving from a bus driver. As soon as I saw the bus pulling out on left, I knew there was absolutely no intention on his part to even care who he sideswiped. I stomped on the brakes and hoped the driver behind me stopped as well. You can clearly see how many cars had to brake because of this bus driver's impatience.

A bus weaving like that in rush hour traffic, who needs tourists for an accident. I have many similar examples on my bike dashcam.

https://youtu.be/4Hxz7Afq9gA

[Laava]

When I lived and drove in London, the buses pretty much have the right of way so pull out like that at the merest flick of an indicator!

[pritch]

Another example of driver not engaging brain before turning.

Back wherever the Asian family originated from it's entirely conceivable that the locals are discussing the stupid Kiwi drivers.

[Jeeper]

When I lived and drove in London, the buses pretty much have the right of way so pull out like that at the merest flick of an indicator!

I understand the physics of impact with a bus. It's never in my favour, best course of action is to be defensive with them around.

[pritch]

I installed a dashcam in my Jeep over the weekend, and today captured this wonderful driving from a bus driver. As soon as I saw the bus pulling out on left, I knew there was absolutely no intention on his part to even care who he sideswiped. I stomped on the brakes and hoped the driver behind me stopped as well. You can clearly see how many cars had to brake because of this bus driver's impatience.

A bus weaving like that in rush hour traffic, who needs tourists for an accident. I have many similar examples on my bike dashcam.

https://youtu.be/4Hxz7Afq9gA

The bus driver has a schedule to adhere to (if possible). Silly I know, but he's hoping for some courtesy from other road users. The van driver had stopped to let the bus out but you carried on blissfully unaware of what was happening. Your situational awareness needs work.

For a motorcyclist your knowledge of other what other road users are doing seems a bit ummm rudimentary.

[Bonez]

I installed a dashcam in my Jeep over the weekend, and today captured this wonderful driving from a bus driver. As soon as I saw the bus pulling out on left, I knew there was absolutely no intention on his part to even care who he sideswiped. I stomped on the brakes and hoped the driver behind me stopped as well. You can clearly see how many cars had to brake because of this bus driver's impatience.

A bus weaving like that in rush hour traffic, who needs tourists for an accident. I have many similar examples on my bike dashcam.

https://youtu.be/4Hxz7Afq9gA

Looks like pretty normal city traffic driving to me.

[Jeeper]

The bus driver has a schedule to adhere to (if possible). Silly I know, but he's hoping for some courtesy from other road users. The van driver had stopped to let the bus out but you carried on blissfully unaware of what was happening. Your situational awareness needs work.

For a motorcyclist your knowledge of other what other road users are doing seems a bit ummm rudimentary.

Ah, I see. I never read the section of road code that talks about maintaining a bus schedule. My bad.

[pritch]

Ah, I see. I never read the section of road code that talks about maintaining a bus schedule. My bad.

It's much worse than that, you are ignoring what's happening around you. Ditch the camera and do a defensive driving course.

[caseye]

It's much worse than that, you are ignoring what's happening around you. Ditch the camera and do a defensive driving course.

Wot he said and Soon, you know, like before youré a smudge on a Buses bumper, because looking so hard for faults in others will put you right under a bus.

[Jeeper]

I was not on a motorcycle, I was driving and fully aware of my surroundings. You high horse riders don't have very good reading skills I guess.

[sidecar bob]

Ah, I see. I never read the section of road code that talks about maintaining a bus schedule. My bad.

Ridiculous of the road code writers to omit the section on using basic common sense.
I have noticed however, that Jeep owners display a special sense of entitlement in their driving.
Possibly because their vehicles resemble a gay boudoir.

[JimO]

Back wherever the Asian family originated from it's entirely conceivable that the locals are discussing the stupid Kiwi drivers.

tourists arnt allowed to drive in china