Waka Kotahi - dont have a clue

[pete376403]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...s-bay-highways

At least when Muldoon bought in the 80k limit (50mph in the old money) it was in response to a fuel crisis. This from Wanker Kotahi is just a knee jerk to a select bunch of mainly young idiot males offing themselves. The same idiots who will ignore speed limits anyway.

[Dadpole]

Also a product of incompetent drivers across the age range. While the powers-that-be are content to avoid any driver training and only focus on 'Speed Kills' the deaths/injuries will only be reduced by slowing everybody down to match the skill level of the average car-steerer.

[Navy Boy]

Yep - Lowest Common Denominator thinking strikes again...

[george formby]

This slower is better thinking is really beginning to boil my piss.

Quite stealthily a lot of my local roads have been reduced to 80kmh and cheese cutters and armco have sprung up in weird places.

Totally pointless. Vehicles end up in a caravan and tempers fray. I've seen more bad decisions by drivers since the limits were lowered than I ever saw before.

What a load of arse!

[Navy Boy]

The frustration for me is the total ignoring of the second and third order effects. Between Renwick and Nelson NZTA have lowered the limits along all of SH6 to varying degrees with a lot of it now 90 or 80Km/hr.

What happens is that people follow, quite often too closely, but don't bother to overtake as the caravan/truck/trailer in front of them is close to 80 or 90 so they figure that there's simply no point. This then brings about a soporific effect of people just following my leader, switching off and doing daft acts of driving.

To be fair it's not entirely their fault - They are simply conforming to a fundamentally flawed limit and therefore human nature dictates that they become bored and switch their thinking to something other than their driving. In other words a lack of stimulation actually makes things worse.

If you're on a bike it's often quite dangerous to try and make progress in such situations. Doubtless if the accident rate drops following the limit reduction NZTA will tell anyone who'll listen that the measures have worked. If not then they'll keep quiet, much like they have with the couple of 110km/hr areas on the North Island which haven't resulted in the 'End of the World as we know it' scenario predicted by some.

[george formby]

The frustration for me is the total ignoring of the second and third order effects. Between Renwick and Nelson NZTA have lowered the limits along all of SH6 to varying degrees with a lot of it now 90 or 80Km/hr.

What happens is that people follow, quite often too closely, but don't bother to overtake as the caravan/truck/trailer in front of them is close to 80 or 90 so they figure that there's simply no point. This then brings about a soporific effect of people just following my leader, switching off and doing daft acts of driving.

To be fair it's not entirely their fault - They are simply conforming to a fundamentally flawed limit and therefore human nature dictates that they become bored and switch their thinking to something other than their driving. In other words a lack of stimulation actually makes things worse.

If you're on a bike it's often quite dangerous to try and make progress in such situations. Doubtless if the accident rate drops following the limit reduction NZTA will tell anyone who'll listen that the measures have worked. If not then they'll keep quiet, much like they have with the couple of 110km/hr areas on the North Island which haven't resulted in the 'End of the World as we know it' scenario predicted by some.

Good point.

Pretty sure this has been covered on KB ad infinitum.

Back in the day Herr Bangerman wanted a blanket horsepower limit on bikes in the EU. Maggie Thatcher produced some UK research and told him to stick to wurst legislation.

The evidence she used showed that motorcyclists travelling at a decent speed had far better awareness, reaction times and anticipation than road users diligently traveling at slower speeds.

This has been born out by research from fighter pilots and racers.

As to how the statistics will be used is standard, usual thing about road toll. Actual comparisons of accident rates seem to be irrelevant, just the death toll.

I suspect that a lower toll on some slowed roads is down to law abiding drivers having slightly more time to react to the fuckwits, if they are still awake.

I guess that's a win, bitter tasting but a win.

[rastuscat]

The evidence she used showed that motorcyclists travelling at a decent speed had far better awareness, reaction times and anticipation than road users diligently traveling at slower speeds.

This has been born out by research from fighter pilots and racers.

Not a very relevant comparison. Racers and fighter pilots tend to be the higher end of the skills matrix.

It never fails to amuse me that we rage on here about how rubbish the general driving standard in the country is, oh and let's let those crap drivers continue to make their mistakes at higher speeds.

[Navy Boy]

Not a very relevant comparison. Racers and fighter pilots tend to be the higher end of the skills matrix.

It never fails to amuse me that we rage on here about how rubbish the general driving standard in the country is, oh and let's let those crap drivers continue to make their mistakes at higher speeds.

Now, now Rastus - Stop stirring. You know full well that's not what we are saying here...

We know that we all have something to learn. Riding/Driving is a perishable skill which needs regular topping up else it withers on the vine. Besides, this isn't just about rubbish driving standards but more about how a lower limit does nothing to help rectify those standards. I agree that pilots and others are not really valid comparisons but the overall point is entirely valid. That is below a certain threshold people feel safe, secure and comfortable and therefore switch off. Surely we should be doing more to prevent people from switching off, not making it easier for them to do so.

[Navy Boy]

I will also add that I actually see some merit in the NZTA's current 'Road to Zero' ad campaign. That is that accidents are down to a number of factors and that a number of aspects form the whole picture.

Whilst I think it is a little misguided - We will never achieve a zero road toll so it always will remain an aspiration - I do applaud the thinking that has moved us away from the binary 'Speed kills' thinking which has been so prevalent thus far.

It's funny how when I ride my Royal Enfield Bullet, with its 28Bhp, that I end up enjoying it just as much as a blat on the Speed Triple with its 133Bhp. For different reasons of course but it does demonstrate that there's more to this biking lark than simple 'Power' (Said with a Jeremy Clarkson accent for best effect).

Perhaps it's an age thing???

[Navy Boy]

It seems that Greg Murphy agrees:

https://www.autocar.co.nz/greg-murph...e-real-issues/

And he's know a thing or two about the topic.

[rastuscat]

It seems that Greg Murphy agrees:

https://www.autocar.co.nz/greg-murph...e-real-issues/

And he's know a thing or two about the topic.

I've met GM a couple of times, and it's fair to say that I don't agree with him on much.

Inevitably he sees driver training as the golden bullet, but that's because he works in driver training.

He is anti cycling, anti electric vehicles, basically anti anything that doesn't burn lots and lots of hydro carbons.

That said, training has a place, but only alongside everything else that needs to be done. It's a holistic solution needed, not just one mans hobby horse.

[F5 Dave]

Electric Hobby Horse, or Carrot powered? 🥕

[rastuscat]

I will also add that I actually see some merit in the NZTA's current 'Road to Zero' ad campaign.

Here's that video explaining the concept of zero.

https://youtu.be/k2tOye9DKdQ

[Navy Boy]

Here's that video explaining the concept of zero.

https://youtu.be/k2tOye9DKdQ

Mmm... Nothing like a good pre-scripted and deliberately posed video to try and support your cause. I'm not convinced I'm afraid as this implies that if you're not in agreement with what they are doing then you're clearly happy with people dying - Which none of us are. In fact it's something of an insult to your intelligence to even suggest that's the case.

What I like about the TV ad campaign thus far is that it doesn't just focus on one thing/aspect - It points out that there are a number of factors involved.

Driver training on its own isn't the panacea, I agree. However GM makes a good point that just trying to implement more and more draconian limts isn't going to fix the problem. In fact, as this last Easter/ANZAC period sadly proved, the toll isn't going down. Therefore basic logic dictates that the powers-that-be need to do something different - That's if driving the toll numbers down is what we're all after.

[Berries]

In fact, as this last Easter/ANZAC period sadly proved, the toll isn't going down. Therefore basic logic dictates that the powers-that-be need to do something different - That's if driving the toll numbers down is what we're all after.

For a start we should be open and discuss each fatal crash. Yeah, it hits the local paper for a couple of days or if it is a big one it might go national and then it's gone. Two or three years down the line the coroner may say something that piques the interest of the media but generally not. So no lessons learnt.

There are those genuinely sad incidents out there where someone makes an honest mistake or error of judgement leading to the inevitable - we could all learn from them. But then there are way too many out there where the driver is immune to all road safety messages, you know, half pissed, had a smoke, can't be arsed with the seat belt and doing 50 over the limit. That is why Road to Zero is nothing but happy clappy words not based in reality.

The lesson that should be taken from the latest advert is don't swerve for possums.