Setting Of Speed Limits - Consultation

[Kickaha]

Funny, while conducting a Basic Handling Skills Test a few years back, I had a client tell me he can't ride with gloves, as his hands aren't sensitive enough to feel the controls. Amazingly, when told he had no choice, or the test wouldn't happen, his hands suddenly developed sensitivity. Kind of miraculous, really. It was an example of someone taking a position, then finding reasons and "evidence" to support his position.

Why? Gloves aren't a legal requirement for riding

I grew up not wearing cycle helmets, started wearing them when the law came in, now it is like my motorcycle, and I don't feel as safe if I don't wear one

[rastuscat]

Why? Gloves aren't a legal requirement for riding

There's an NZTA document called the statement of approved conditions. It's basically the rules around how things are required to be done.

One of the requirements is that rider has to have long pants, and long sleeves when doing the BHST. Basically, no skin under the chin.

So gloves are mandatory for that. It also encourages good habits, for those learning to ride.

[SaferRides]

Somone came on a group ride recently without gloves. He seems like a perfectly normal, intelligent person, but somehow thought riding a motorbike at speed without gloves was OK.

Someone had a quiet word and he's worn them ever since!

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[jellywrestler]

, no skin under the chin.

.

I've been riding for near 50 years and never heard that, sounds like a catchy message wondering why one of the ride forever type organisations haven't used that, much more hip than ATGATT.

[Berries]

By default it must mean that skin above the chin is ok but pretty sure there will never be a campaign for open face helmets.

"Think about it" is all you need. If you aren't going to fall off you don't need any safety gear. If you are going to fall off you should stay at home. For the majority of us who sit between those two extremes you need to think about the consequences of coming off and protect yourself accordingly.

I am sure my essential riding gear will differ to yours but until one of us falls off it doesn't really matter, and I do my utmost not to fall off.

[nerrrd]

Saw the 'tall bike' rider again this morning, keeping up with the traffic in the outside lane on the four lane main arterial I live on, no helmet.

While I applaud his bravery, it does make me wonder if ACC should have an excess system for treatment based on whether the victim was taking their own (and others) safety into consideration in the event of an accident, payable on their recovery.

[rastuscat]

I've been riding for near 50 years and never heard that, sounds like a catchy message wondering why one of the ride forever type organisations haven't used that, much more hip than ATGATT.

I'll admit to having stolen the "no skin under the chin" phrase.

It's a rule for American service people who ride motorcycles, either on duty or not. The military got sick of losing staff to motorcycle injuries, so instituted a legal requirement for all staff to have "no skin under the chin" when riding bikes, off duty or not.

I guess you could just wear lycra, but that's not the point. They use it to keep their staff ready for deployment instead of lying in a burns ward recovering from road rash.

[pritch]

instead of lying in a burns ward recovering from road rash.

A new doctor is being shown around a Scottish hospital

As they enter one ward, the nearest patient turns to him and says "Fair fa' your honest sonsie face, great chieftain o' the pudden race!"

Before the doctor can react, the patient in the next bed adds "Wee sleekit cowerin' timorous beastie! O what a panic's in thy breastie!"

And not to be outdone, the third patient responds "Some ha' meat and cannae eat, and some wad eat that want it!"

The doctor murmurs to the orderly "So this is the mental health ward?"

"Och no!" replies the orderly.

"...it's the serious Burns Unit!"

[R650R]

Well here’s something that can prob be argued both ways but good example that root cause of crash is stupid actions. This is on what is now an 80k section of SH5 but most people in a decent vehicle would be cracking on a bit more to make use of last passing opportunity for awhile and same for oncoming passing lane that ends at same spot.
Logger would have been empty piggy backing trailer so good steering and braking.
NZTA will prob dig up road for 12 months to install barriers so she can do stupid upturn at another location…
When people ask why do trucks need to be in fast lane overtaking cars or camper and this is why. As per drivers comments you can read in advance that they are stupid and it’s better to be in front if chance arises.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/3503...ier-taupo-road

[SaferRides]

I'd be interested to know how many people die every year as a result of U turns. It can be a very dangerous manouvere, especially at open road speeds, as the the consequences of getting it wrong are usually severe.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[pritch]

U turns are dangerous especially when the cops do them.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cri...ged-over-death
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/...gerous-driving

[Berries]

I'd be interested to know how many people die every year as a result of U turns. It can be a very dangerous manouvere, especially at open road speeds, as the the consequences of getting it wrong are usually severe.

I used to post a response to these questions but jacked in my job and no longer have access to the data. Safe to say however the number is fuck all in relation to the overall road toll. One that I do personally remember is one of those very very very few where I think it could have been me. Pissed twats pull a u-turn, bloke on his newly purchased mbike riding all legal etc comes around corner and has nowhere to go. Manages to scrub off enough speed that it should not be fatal but hits his head on the rear door frame and game over. Not nice, not deserved, could have been you or me.

If you look at motorcycle crash data you will find a higher proportion of these SMIDNSY crashes but overall they are not a big part of the the road toll.

[SaferRides]

I used to post a response to these questions but jacked in my job and no longer have access to the data. Safe to say however the number is fuck all in relation to the overall road toll. One that I do personally remember is one of those very very very few where I think it could have been me. Pissed twats pull a u-turn, bloke on his newly purchased mbike riding all legal etc comes around corner and has nowhere to go. Manages to scrub off enough speed that it should not be fatal but hits his head on the rear door frame and game over. Not nice, not deserved, could have been you or me.

One I remember was outside a friend's place near Te Kauwhata where a police car did a U turn just before a blind crest and a motorbike coming the other way went straight into the car. My friend gave up road riding after that.



Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[rastuscat]

I'll have a look at CAS tomorrow to find the U turn stats involving motorcycles.

I suspect more involve motorcycle rider problems than the well known Police U turn problems. But most crashes don't make the media, so don't enter the public consciousness.

[Berries]

I'd be interested to know how many people die every year as a result of U turns. It can be a very dangerous manouvere, especially at open road speeds, as the the consequences of getting it wrong are usually severe.

An average of four per year in the last five years. Two thirds on roads with speed limit above 70km/h. What is interesting is that when it comes to motorbike involvement over 70% of these crashes were on roads below 70km/h.

I'll have a look at CAS tomorrow to find the U turn stats involving motorcycles.

I suspect more involve motorcycle rider problems than the well known Police U turn problems. But most crashes don't make the media, so don't enter the public consciousness.

Here you go then, all according to the national crash database which has a variety of data quality issues.

54,677 crashes resulting in injury in last five years. 916 were u-turn crashes which is 1.7% of the total.

19 of these crashes were fatal which is 1.2% of the 1,514 fatal crashes on the database - certainly not a significant issue in the scheme of things.

As you would expect, well I would, motorbikes are well over represented in these figures with eight of the 19 crashes having them hit and the rider being killed.

There are three where the rider does not appear to have been doing anything wrong, in two cases a car pulled across their path, the third was never really established but it was motorbike vs motorbike.

Hate to say it, but as always the rider was not exactly squeaky clean in the other crashes. This is where it gets difficult because some of you may know some of the deceased. Some of you may even have been at the incident but there is no way to sugar coat things. Of the other five crashes all the bikes were exceeding the speed limit which means the driver could easily misjudge things. The three low level speeding (<30km/h over the limit) were all Harleys and hard not to note that two of the riders did not have a valid licence. The other two crashes were in 50km/h areas with the bikes doing 90 and 130km/h. I find it hard to blame the car driver when shit like that happens.