RUC's for all road vehicles, this will be fun.

[rastuscat]

There seems to be a focus in that video on the fact that people with more fuel efficient cars will end up paying more, and that it's somehow unfair.

If you're driving your car on the road, it's causing some degree of degradation of that road regardless of how much fuel it's using to do that, so it doesn't seem unreasonable that the contribution to roading costs is based on how far you drive not how much fuel you use while doing so.

The argument that it reduces the incentive to drive more efficient cars doesn't really stack up, given that fuel levy (+GST) is around 1/3 of the cost of petrol, the other 2/3 of the cost is reason enough to drive something more efficient if you want to pay less to get from A to B.

There seem to be a lot of suggestions for other add-ons to RUC charging which has the potential to open a lot of doors for other charges and potential for spectacular cockups in the implementation, the current system seems to work pretty well for diesels and EVs, the simple answer would seem to be to just do that. If your RUCs aren't up to date you don't get a WOF, sure there will be some people who will try to fiddle the system or already don't care if their vehicle is legal, but the majority will just take the easiest route of paying what they're supposed to and the government will get the money they want.

The current system is subject to significant abuse. All sysyems are. Because of its current size, it's as much as the enforcement side can cope with.

If the curerent system went full gas, including all vehicles, the abuse would be beyond the coping ability of enforcement, without a ramping up of the enforcement system itself.

I know a lot of cops who won't write RUC tickets, as it's too close to being pure tax collection.

[jellywrestler]

I know a lot of cops who won't write RUC tickets, as it's too close to being pure tax collection.

don't they swear to uphold the law?
isn't it a cops job to write the tickets, and a judges to assess whether they are guilty, not the cops?

sounds crooked to me

[BMWST?]

The current system is subject to significant abuse. All sysyems are. Because of its current size, it's as much as the enforcement side can cope with.

If the curerent system went full gas, including all vehicles, the abuse would be beyond the coping ability of enforcement, without a ramping up of the enforcement system itself.

I know a lot of cops who won't write RUC tickets, as it's too close to being pure tax collection.

I have been driving diesels since 2011 and i never had a query about my ruc. My only intereactions with officials in that time have been at about 4 or 5 random breath tests. In the same interval i have taken my cars to VTNZ for most of the WOFS apart from the last few years with a near new vehicle (either no check required or done at a service) I dont think there is a check box on the wof sheet to verify odometer with RUC label

[rastuscat]

I dont think there is a check box on the wof sheet to verify odometer with RUC label

Not yet.

If the RUC system ramps up (it's going to) then enforcement will have to ramp up to match it.

How that happens is not clear. WoF checks? Police? Roadside RUC checks?

NZTA has recently contracted a private company, Acusensus, to take the speed camera photos. Is that a sign of the future? Private enforcement of RUC?

That's the problem with annoucing a plan with no details. Those interested in the details have to speculate about them.

[jellywrestler]

That's the problem with annoucing a plan with no details. We all have to speculate as to the details.

no we don't, most people are doing better things with their lives

[nerrrd]

NZTA has recently contracted a private company, Acusensus, to take the speed camera photos. Is that a sign of the future? Private enforcement of RUC?

Investors certainly seem to think so.

Eroad stock jumps 25% after update on road user charges.

[rastuscat]

no we don't, most people are doing better things with their lives

Fixed it for you.

[pete376403]

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/i...arge-framework

In spite of quite large sums of money being spent altering roads to accomodate cyclists. What ever happened to user pays, fairness, etc,?

[BMWST?]

Not yet.

If the RUC system ramps up (it's going to) then enforcement will have to ramp up to match it.

How that happens is not clear. WoF checks? Police? Roadside RUC checks?

NZTA has recently contracted a private company, Acusensus, to take the speed camera photos. Is that a sign of the future? Private enforcement of RUC?

That's the problem with annoucing a plan with no details. Those interested in the details have to speculate about them.

I would have thought that a label/odometer check would already have been part of a wof check. I have had a rego check at roadside encounters.I spose that can be done without even looking for the label now.

[rastuscat]

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/i...arge-framework

In spite of quite large sums of money being spent altering roads to accomodate cyclists. What ever happened to user pays, fairness, etc,?

Hmmm. Interesting. Fairness?

Cyclists, one way or another, pay rates. Either on the property they own, or on the property they rent via the landlord.

At least 50% of the cost of roads in virtually every town in the country is paid for out of rates.

And yet the vast majority of road spend is on roads for cars and trucks. Only in recent times has the cyclist and pedestrian been given much thought on roading networks.

Effectively, cyclists, who pay rates, have been doing so for decades with little infrastrucuture being built for their use. In the last couple of decades this has started to change, though the proportion of spend on cycling infrastructure is still pretty minimal by comparison. It just happens to be very visible, causing a backlash from some who don't ride a bike.

Also interesting is that most cyclists pay income tax, and drive cars. So they also pay the taxes which give people a sense of entitlement. The other 50% of the cost of most local roads come from the National Land Transport Fund, which gets money from income and various other taxes.

Perhaps if, historically, roads were built to accomodate more than just cars, truck and motorcycles, we wouldn't have to spend so much retro-fitting cycle infrastructure.

Perhaps you are aware, but possibly not. A massive 1.7% of the current national budget for transport is spent on pedestrian and cycling facilities.

Roads are for people. Some drive cars, some ride motorcycles, some walk and some ride bikes.

They are funded by far more than just the tax you pay on petrol.

Think laterally. If you want to get some value from the money you are paying for cycling infrasturure, go get a bike, and use that infrastructure yourself.

User pays? They sure do.

https://www.canterbury.ac.nz/news-an...vesting-more-i

[sugilite:Me]

I don't really disagree with anything you say there Rastuscat. Road maintenance costs born of cyclists would barely exist, if at all. Where I would start to say, yes, lets charge cyclists is if they try to attach ACC into the RUC to cover medical injuries as per the video you shared. That is where the government would really need to work out a way to include cyclists into the RUC scheme.

[rastuscat]

I don't really disagree with anything you say there Rastuscat. Road maintenance costs born of cyclists would barely exist, if at all. Where I would start to say, yes, lets charge cyclists is if they try to attach ACC into the RUC to cover medical injuries as per the video you shared. That is where the government would really need to work out a way to include cyclists into the RUC scheme.

Even defining "cyclists " is a mission. A growing trend is for retired people to buy e-bikes and get out in large groups, that issue is emerging down here. They tend to stick to separated cycle ways, promoting community connections and improving health.

Then theres kids wobbling along footpaths, learning to ride. And lycra-warriors, which people are generally referring to when they talk about cyclists.

So, as is mentioned in that article I quoted in the previous post, cycling is generally good for society. But really hard to effectively tax.

[neels]

Even defining "cyclists " is a mission. A growing trend is for retired people to buy e-bikes and get out in large groups, that issue is emerging down here. They tend to stick to separated cycle ways, promoting community connections and improving health.

Then theres kids wobbling along footpaths, learning to ride. And lycra-warriors, which people are generally referring to when they talk about cyclists.

So, as is mentioned in that article I quoted in the previous post, cycling is generally good for society. But really hard to effectively tax.

I do wonder what some people mean by 'cyclist', given that I'm a different 'cyclist' depending on which bike I'm riding and where I'm riding it, which version is it that they so vehemently object to?

There are so many reasons why it's completely impractical to tax cyclists it's not even worth starting to list them....

The complainers don't want cyclists on the road holding up traffic, but they also object to money being spent on infrastructure to get them off the roads, so basically they're never going to be happy unless roads are only for them and the only money spent is on roads for them.

[nerrrd]

I don’t object to sharing the road with cyclists, but if it was a practical form of mass transport for a city like Auckland, all the infrastructure for cycling would have developed organically alongside the existing roadways. Imposing it retrospectively on roads that were never designed for it just makes an imperfect situation for everybody at an eye-watering cost. I guess that’s an insoluble problem.

E bikes are another matter altogether, as the ones I see most often seem to be able to keep up with the general flow of traffic, I don’t see why they couldn’t be put in the same category as mopeds and scooters. I’ve also seen a couple of teenagers a few times around here exceeding the speed limit and doing burnouts on a couple of e bikes that wouldn’t look out of place at an enduro event. Some level of regulation and enforcement needs to happen there.

[jellywrestler]

Think laterally. If you want to get some value from the money you are paying for cycling infrasturure, go get a bike, and use that infrastructure yourself.



https://www.canterbury.ac.nz/news-an...vesting-more-i

might have to go and see if i can get an STD so I can use the free sexual health clinic too