Charged with Dangerous Driving - You got to be kiddin me?

[Divot]

Well, No, actually.

They are still talking about making this law. At the moment you can be done for careless if you manner of driving warrants it. You can also get a ticket for stopping on the motorway and talking on a cell phone, most people who do this I have seen also have half their office on the passangers seat.

[SPman]

They are still talking about making this law. At the moment you can be done for careless if you manner of driving warrants it. You can also get a ticket for stopping on the motorway and talking on a cell phone, most people who do this I have seen also have half their office on the passangers seat.

Must admit I've never had a real problem with the phone and driving - but then, I'm used to concentrating on whats around me when im driving/riding. And yes - my office is the passengers seat.

Without this info there seems to be no proof that the radar speed hadn't been recorded at an earlier time and simply held on screen... until one of us gets to see it??

I must admit, this thought had occured to me in recent times. It never would have, in earlier times.......sad really!

[scumdog]

The cops don't need evidence. They don't even need a radar reading - and laser is easier to fake anyway, since all it does is measure distance. Stick it out the window at the appropriate speed, aim at passing sign, and pull trigger..

Hmmm, the lasers I've used all showed the distance AND the speed, always show those to any driver I've stopped - and when they've viewed it I then delete the reading.
That way I could (if needed) get them as a witness should anybody try to make the claim "it must have been the last cars reading" in court.

I guess a lot of you think ALL coppers lie/are bent etc... sort of like we could think ALL riders speed/do runners??

[marty]

laser uses a change in distance/time equation to establish speed. i can't be fucked explaining it, but it knows whether the speed is + or - (approaching or retreating), and like has been said many times before, why cheat, when there's plenty of lambs out there....

[geoffm]

Hmmm, the lasers I've used all showed the distance AND the speed, always show those to any driver I've stopped - and when they've viewed it I then delete the reading.
That way I could (if needed) get them as a witness should anybody try to make the claim "it must have been the last cars reading" in court.

I guess a lot of you think ALL coppers lie/are bent etc... sort of like we could think ALL riders speed/do runners??

The laser guns give distance and speed, as that is how they work - measure distance and time between distance measurements. The one I had a play with was like shooting fish in a barrel with a shotgun to 500m - harder on bikes above that range. Could easily pick up cars to a kilometre away, although closer was easier, and getting closer made it easier to distinguish between targets.
The point is that there is no evidence required in the system, and the addition of e.g. video cameras as a general addition would remove the possibility of corrupt practice, or the accusation of it. It would also open up exciting new TV franchise opportunities for NZ's Scariest Police Chases, and When sheep go bad!
MacDonalds didn't get to the size they are by making good hamburgers, but because they have a system that means even a doped out 16yo school leaver makes a consistent (if not good) product. Having a system that provides evidence of wrongdoing beyond reasonable doubt can only improve the perception. Of course it will decrease the profitability, and introduce loopholes. It is so much easier to avoid all that messy paperwork.

The cost of tickets (IMO) is balanced against the cost of prosecuting and collecting higher amounts. If they were really serious about speeding, and the fines were (say) $500 or $1000 for each km over the limit (so that Helen would be up for $40,000 - $80k), then there would be a number of effects. It would be political suicide for the government of the day, a lot more people would do runners, and many people wouldn't pay anyway. More to the point, the economics of defending the ticket would change. At present, apart from a few well heeled individuals like Bob Jones, nobody drops $20-30k in legal fees to defend a $200 ticket. With huge fines pending, then it is worthwhile fighting it. Suddenly, the court system is no longer a rubber stamp, and the prosecutors will actually have to provide evidence to support the claims, and real lawyers will be cross examining, and the onus pf proof is no longer on the defendant, who is automatically guilty. None of this helps the revenue stream at all...
In a "real" crime, the ones that can give the defendant the opportunity to meet a new social group and a new friend named Bubba, there must be supporting evidence. A murder requires that somebody is dead (!), preferably that there is a body, the dead person is proven to be not only dead, but also the person the defendant is accused of bumping off. The evidence trail of Exhibit A must be documented and watertight from the crime scene to the courtroom, and proven to apply to the case at hand, etc. None of this applies to speeding offences. The word of the copper is gospel and taken as infallible and perfectly honest, and the onus of proof is on the defendant - camera tickets being an obvious example. I have been a recipient of a ticket which could not have applied to me, so be assured, it does happen. Got some I absolutely deserved as well...
No, I don't believe the NZ cops are bent. in fact, I would say for busting crims, they are amongst the best in the world, despite the political BS and tax collecting which has been foisted upon them, and a revolving door "justice" system that lets the villains walk while making sure that anyone who harms them going about their illegal business gets nailed. I would have liked to be a fly on the wall when the cops who fingered Jules Mikas and said "...about that little girl you killed and thought you had got away with..."
There are contradictory pressures at work between funding (e.g.: ACC paying for random stops, ticketing for revenue not safety) and solving crimes, which is a time consuming, expensive business that costs money. Having a list of crimes which are insignificant and will not be investigated, even if all the evidence is given to the police, makes those crimes effectively no longer crimes. If there is no penalty, then the law is irrelevant, so car break-ins and small burglaries in Auckland are effectively no longer illegal. Given that most of the crims start with these crimes and that around 80%+ are reoffenders, I consider this to be unacceptable. Any job has core tasks which must be done, otherwise you should be fired. These core tasks have not been done in this case, and the blame points straight at the top - the various police ministers of several governments, the police brass and the government(s) in general over the last 20 years. It is their responsibility to provide to tools for the troops, and give the direction and importance to the jobs that have to be done.
I am a great believer in "innocent until proven guilty" and the right to a fair trial and representation. It is the cornerstone of society and the legal system (there is no justice system). Look at the countries that don't have it - would you want to live there? From small changes for political expediency, it is a small step to chipping those rights away. The recent antiterrorism laws in Australia and the UK being an example. It is not the good they can do, or the current problems, it is how they can be misused in the future.

and thus endeth the rant for today. Now I have to get back to work...

Geoff

[madboy]

I'm all in favour of video. As much as it would annoy me for identification reasons, it would reassure me a lot when the cops took someone to court later on.

But if video was introduced, you can just imagine the big parties at so and so's house, when they watch the next exciting episode of "NZs Scariest Police Videos".

We could get Sherrif John Bunnell to guest host... "The pursuing officer was closing in quickly on the fleeing criminal, using the awesome power of his specially modified, Police edition Commodore to hunt down the less powerful 1000cc sportsbike on the long straights of the motorway" "The criminals riding was getting more and more erratic, he was having difficulty keeping the front wheel on the ground, unable to control his vehicle as he raced up to 117km/h!!" "He narrowly avoids being taken out when he passes a truck, stationery 300m away!" "The criminal in this case got lucky, when while he raised his middle finger in apparent surrender suddenly he jerked the throttle, sending his vehicle into a massive, uncontrolled spur of acceleration and was never seen again. But expert analysis of the blank space where his number plate should have been affixed to his vehicle will ensure that we'll catch this guy!"

Bring it on

[Lou Girardin]

I'm all in favour of video. As much as it would annoy me for identification reasons, it would reassure me a lot when the cops took someone to court later on.

But if video was introduced, you can just imagine the big parties at so and so's house, when they watch the next exciting episode of "NZs Scariest Police Videos".

We could get Sherrif John Bunnell to guest host... "The pursuing officer was closing in quickly on the fleeing criminal, using the awesome power of his specially modified, Police edition Commodore to hunt down the less powerful 1000cc sportsbike on the long straights of the motorway" "The criminals riding was getting more and more erratic, he was having difficulty keeping the front wheel on the ground, unable to control his vehicle as he raced up to 117km/h!!" "He narrowly avoids being taken out when he passes a truck, stationery 300m away!" "The criminal in this case got lucky, when while he raised his middle finger in apparent surrender suddenly he jerked the throttle, sending his vehicle into a massive, uncontrolled spur of acceleration and was never seen again. But expert analysis of the blank space where his number plate should have been affixed to his vehicle will ensure that we'll catch this guy!"

Bring it on

But where will you get a knob-head with a perma tan, gay silver hair and peroxided teeth?
Hey, Robbie hasn't got a job now. They could give him a make over.

[madboy]

Hey, Robbie hasn't got a job now. They could give him a make over.

"It appears the officer was unable to disengage his cruise control, and the leather-clad hooligan on the much less powerful 1000cc sportsbike was able to get away from the pursuit special Commodore."