VFR800 vs VTR1000

**vifferman** · 27th October 2005, 13:31

Originally Posted by Blackbird

The only negative thing I've heard about the VTEC version is the very high service charges when working on the top end of the motor.

Look on the VFR forums then - I'm on four of them. The VTec has had a few recalls (brakes, rear subframe, stator x2) and has garnered HEAPS of complaints for suffering from jerky throttle response, mysterious stalling, uneven power delivery, etc. etc.) Generally it's very reliable, but the VTec and the electronics associated with it have caused some headaches. But ask a Honda dealer and they'll deny all knowledge.
Other VFRs? The only potential problem is the R/R, and from 2000 onwards they had better ones fitted. In any case, an R/R is $300 to fix permanently, and R/R problems are common to MANY bikes, not just Hondas, but the near-fanaticism of VFR owners means it's been highlighted more. In fact, VTR R/Rs are worse than VFR ones, but you wouldn't know it...
I know of VFRs that have travelled over 500,000kms, so they're a fairly bulletproof motor. The gearboxes though are standard Honda fare, and can get clunky and full of false-neutrals if abused.

**Zapf** · 27th October 2005, 13:57

as long as you don't mind SV650s out driving you out of corners then buy a VFR800

**vifferman** · 27th October 2005, 14:22

Originally Posted by zadok

"The new 2-stage valve control system, called 'V4 VTEC', is chain driven and aims to provide more torque through the lower and middle ranges by only utilising two valves in each cylinder until just over 7,000 rpm when the other two valves per cylinder also kick in to play."

Nup - torque curves for the two bikes are virtually identical.

Originally Posted by zadok

The bike responds with a distinct change in engine note and intake roar as all four valves come on song."

WAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!
No thanks...

Originally Posted by zadok

"The new engine is noticeably quieter than the previous model. Gone is the characteristic whine from the gear driven cams in the 781cc V-Four engine. This is mainly due to the move to chain drive for the cams but also the reduction in noise from only having two valves per cylinder operating most of the time rather than four. "

Yup. This is almost the only reason for the VTec. Honda moved the gears for the camdrive from the centre of the camshafts to the right-hand end in 1998, and it made the engine much noisier. Sometimes (when the engine isn't under load, at moderate revs) the whining gets on my nerves, as it's quite loud.
Still, at least it doesn't sound like the lawnmower engine the SV650 is powered by.

**nudemetalz** · 27th October 2005, 14:28

The VTEC engine went back to chains because they couldn't get the VTEC to adapt with the gears or sometihng like that.

That's always been a Honda bug-bear and a bit of a step backwards in my opinion (BTW I've owned a lot of Hondas and a number of them have had cam-chain and tensioner issues including my current VTR)

**vifferman** · 27th October 2005, 14:44

Originally Posted by nudemetalz

The VTEC engine went back to chains because they couldn't get the VTEC to adapt with the gears or sometihng like that.

Nup.
It's just noise reduction, and Honda has said as much. All the hooplah about economy, more torque at low revs etc was just a weak attempt to placate the Vifferisti who love gear-driven cams.

Originally Posted by nudey metal thingz

That's always been a Honda bug-bear and a bit of a step backwards in my opinion (BTW I've owned a lot of Hondas and a number of them have had cam-chain and tensioner issues including my current VTR)

Yeah.
Even though my VTR had brand-new camchains and tensioners (and two valves), I bought a pair of APE tensioners and fitted 'em.
Camchain noise paranoia, y'know.

**nudemetalz** · 27th October 2005, 15:16

Ahh so it was only noise reduction. I should have read the press releases better !!
Thanks Vifferman

I like the aggressive look of the new VFR but why not make it a full 1000cc.
At 800 they're nearly there already and it would have more torque making the VTEC unnecessary. Just my opinion.

**vifferman** · 27th October 2005, 15:32

Originally Posted by nudemetalz

I like the aggressive look of the new VFR but why not make it a full 1000cc.
At 800 they're nearly there already and it would have more torque making the VTEC unnecessary. Just my opinion.

No, not just your opinion.
There were a LOT of VFR fans waiting to see if the new (2006) VFR was going to be Bigger! Better! More Improved! Now With More Meat!
Alas, the changes were all cosmetic, apart from a change in the VTec operation to make it smoother.
It's the first time in the VFR's history that there wasn't an all-new model released four years after the previous major model (the 2002 VTec). Now VFR nuts are wondering whether Honda is holding off until the Blackbird replacement is released (if it's replacing both sports-tourers with one bike), or they're going to drop the VFR so they're not bothering to do any major upgrades.
One possibility is a 1200cc V5, based on the RC211V MotoGP bike, which won't be released until Honda are running an 800 in MotoGP (2007), as the MotoGP bikes aren't allowed to be related to road-going models.

Who knows - it's all speculation.
I'm quite happy with keeping the 2001 VFR and fixing stuff I'm not happy with. Next up: I'm trying a PowerCommander to see how it goes.

**nudemetalz** · 27th October 2005, 15:38

Was your model was based loosely on the NR750 Style or is that just a coincidence?

**badlieutenant** · 27th October 2005, 18:41

everything vifferman said

oh and reg/rec issues can often be fixed with a small computer fan fitted to the heatsink to prevent over heating and failing thermaly

**Zapf** · 27th October 2005, 18:53

Originally Posted by vifferman

lawnmower engine the SV650 is powered by.

ermm... out driving viffers on my suki lawnmower... ermm me like lawnmowers....

**nudemetalz** · 27th October 2005, 18:59

Originally Posted by Zapf

ermm... out driving viffers on my suki lawnmower... ermm me like lawnmowers....

Would that be a "Briggs and Zuki" ?

j/k SV650's are groovy machines

**VeeFour** · 27th October 2005, 20:26

I originally bought my 99 VFR800 for two up riding but then my girlfriend decided she was safer on her own bike.

I have only owned full on sports bikes in the past so I didn't think I'd keep the VFR for long. I was proved wrong. The greatest asset of the VFR800 is the superb handling whatever the road conditions. It has plenty of power everywhere in the rev range and sounds great with a K&N and Yoshi pipe. Some people describe VFR's as sedate and sensible but they are talking out their arse, wouldn't know a great bike if they fell over one.

I think viffers are much more refined than the VTR and are around the same money for the 98-2001 models. Two years on, and I still think its the best bike I've owned yet (however I don't like the looks of the Vtec model).