Help, stats needed. V8 v Motormacycle

[TonyB]

10 secs a lap.... that is an official arse kicking. Bikes don't use aerodynamic down force, so they will never corner as fast or brake as hard as a race car with down force.

And just as bloody well too, otherwise bike racing would become the procession that many forms of car racing have become. Why? In an EVEN racing class, most passing is done using the braking area or a mid corner speed variation. A vehicle with down force can brake in a much shorter distance than a standard vehicle. Shortening the braking area makes it harder to pass. Increasing corner speed makes it harder to pass.
EG: two vehicles are racing- they have no aerodynamic aids. The braking marker for a certain corner is 200m out. They need to gain say 10m to make a clean pass. So to make a clean pass they need to brake 5% harder or later.
Next they are fitted with wings etc giving them some down force. God knows what the braking distance would really be, but considering that an F1 car can supposely drive UPSIDEDOWN at anything over 100k, lets just say that its now 100m. To make a pass they now have to brake 10% harder or later, and they will be going much faster when they get there.

F1 racing cars are awesome machines. Nothing can get around a race track faster. But the braking distances are so short and the corner speeds are so high that it is incredibly difficult to make a pass. So you end up with a race that is won with pit stop strategys. Y-A-W-N!!!!!!!!!!!!! In MotoGP the lead can change 6 times in a lap. What would you rather watch?

[k14]

http://www.canterburycarclub.co.nz/T...%20Records.php

That has the ruapuna lap records. Bike best lap is 5 secs better than a V8, 125 lap record is only 2 secs less. Although I'd say an auzzie v8 (eg, murph) would be pretty damn close to a bike around there, they are alot more sophisticated than the ones the nz series runs.

Its pretty logical that a v8 would be faster round puke than a bike, its a horsepower track and isn't really a good indication of the all round ability.

Next round in the v8's is at philip island. See what lap times they are pulling there compared to superbikes and motogp. Be a good indication.

[Kickaha]

but considering that an F1 car can supposely drive UPSIDEDOWN at anything over 100k.

And if they had any balls one of the teams would do a demo and prove that to us

[TonyB]

And if they had any balls one of the teams would do a demo and prove that to us

Of course they can't do it ...... there's no "Drive upsidedown" button on the steering wheel...

[Kickaha]

Just about forgot at the first Drink Drive 500 (liquor King) the fastest TransAm car was faster than the fastest bike by about 2/100ths of a second on the first day with both bikes and cars using the same track configuration

but thats a purpose built race car vs modified road bike

[Motu]

It's the aerodynamics that stop the F1 cars from passing these days,as they get close the dirty air reduces the down force so they can't get right up close,I think new rules are being sort to rectify this.An F1 car makes 1G just by backing off the throttle.It's stupid to campare any racing class against another,four wheels or two,each class has restriction,it's the whole point like,y'know? Whatever handycaps they have hurt,something not handycapped in that area will shit on them.

In the 50s bikes had full dustbin fairings,they covered the complete front wheel,but they were banned.GP bikes still don't have full front wheel coverage - does the ban still apply? Maybe bikes could be faster???

[onearmedbandit]

In the 50s bikes had full dustbin fairings,they covered the complete front wheel,but they were banned.GP bikes still don't have full front wheel coverage - does the ban still apply? Maybe bikes could be faster???

From the official Motogp quide:

Rule 26, subsection 1a; No motorcycle shall run a 'dustbin' stlye fairing in any FIM/DORNA event.

However one has to dig a little further to find out the reasoning why:

Rule 26, subsection 1a falls under the 'fashion crimes against motorcycles' (FCAM) act introduced in 1978.

[Oscar]

TWENTY SECONDS:

Lap Record – Marcos Ambrose (AU Falcon) 1:51.6490 (2002) ...

[cowpoos]

I could be arsed. For Pukekohe, the production superbikes are a smidgeon quicker than the Porche GT3's. Both in the mid to low 58's for the rounds I looked at. Couldn't see any times for the V8 supercars. Are the GT3's quicker?

probally not..

[cowpoos]

10 secs a lap.... that is an official arse kicking. Bikes don't use aerodynamic down force, so they will never corner as fast or brake as hard as a race car with down force.

And just as bloody well too, otherwise bike racing would become the procession that many forms of car racing have become. Why? In an EVEN racing class, most passing is done using the braking area or a mid corner speed variation. A vehicle with down force can brake in a much shorter distance than a standard vehicle. Shortening the braking area makes it harder to pass. Increasing corner speed makes it harder to pass.
EG: two vehicles are racing- they have no aerodynamic aids. The braking marker for a certain corner is 200m out. They need to gain say 10m to make a clean pass. So to make a clean pass they need to brake 5% harder or later.
Next they are fitted with wings etc giving them some down force. God knows what the braking distance would really be, but considering that an F1 car can supposely drive UPSIDEDOWN at anything over 100k, lets just say that its now 100m. To make a pass they now have to brake 10% harder or later, and they will be going much faster when they get there.

F1 racing cars are awesome machines. Nothing can get around a race track faster. But the braking distances are so short and the corner speeds are so high that it is incredibly difficult to make a pass. So you end up with a race that is won with pit stop strategys. Y-A-W-N!!!!!!!!!!!!! In MotoGP the lead can change 6 times in a lap. What would you rather watch?

as usual....tony's makin some sence...

[number33]

It's all just physics. 4 wide tyres piss all over 2 skinny bike tyres on corners. Jesus - the contact patch on a bike is ridiculously tiny. As for outright performance, GP bikes OUTACCELERATE F1 cars and Joe blogg's street R1 pisses all over a V8 supercar.

[Mental Trousers]

It really depends on the track as to which will be faster - V8 supercar or bike. Pukekohe is a fast track where vehicles benefit from aerodynamics. It also doesn't have many places where the bikes superior power to weight ratio can be used effectively - out of the hair pin is really the only place.

Would be interesting to see times for both on more complex tracks.

[gav]

It's all just physics. 4 wide tyres piss all over 2 skinny bike tyres on corners. Jesus - the contact patch on a bike is ridiculously tiny.

I see this brought up alot, can you tell me why a 125GP bike can corner faster than a MotoGP when it has narrower tyres? Anyone??

[Biff]

In the 50s bikes had full dustbin fairings,they covered the complete front wheel,but they were banned

The official line being that dustbin fairings were prone to speed wobbles during a side wind. Another reason could have simply been sour grapes ( from some manufacturers), as Motto Guzzi (the inventer of the bins) was one of, if not the only, bike companies with access to a wind tunnel they used in order to improve the bikes hairydynamics. I think.

[Kickaha]

Would be interesting to see times for both on more complex tracks.

Only slighty more complex than Puke but at Teretonga

NZV8 Supertaxi, Kayne Scott , 1.02.867
GT3 Porshce,Matt Halliday, 59.519
GSXR1000, Andrew Stroud,1.00.697
GSXR600?Shaun Harris,1.02.300
RS125,Midge Smart,1.05.168
Hayabusa Sidecar,Scrivener/Meads,1.09.200

AT Levels the Production Superbikes were faster than all the car classes even though the bikes run a extra chicane onto the start/finish straight
there was less than a second in it though