Bike Chase Alfriston/Brookby Area

[SuperDave]

I was a bit behind the chase but had a nice little blast in the countryside trying to catch up.

BC

I'm probably gonna receive flak about what I'm going to say but it's nothing personal. This kinda comment makes me so pissed off about how ruthless cops are when it comes to members of the public speeding - be it just a short burst of speed to pass a smoking truck or whatever. Four cop cars were already chasing this guy who was not going over 120kph, now was it really necessary for you to have to speed to try and catch up? If speeding is as deady as the police would like us to believe then honestly, was it really necessary for you to do so being the 5th (or whatever position you were) persuier to speed on a public road?

It's all a matter of making more money for the government.

Again nothing personal to you BC, I assume you were requested to join in the persuit and I also take it you tried to catch up whilst observing whatever restrictions/guidlines cops have for chases. But honeslty, fuck the system.

[spudchucka]

It's all a matter of making more money for the government.

Pursuits are never really about speeding. Speed might be the catalyst that causes the cop to attempt to stop the vehicle in the first place but once they fail to stop it becomes a question of why.

Some run just to avoid a fine but if your vehicle won't do more than 120 kph whats the point? You then have to consider whether the driver or a passenger might be a wanted person or the vehicle involved is stolen, carrying stolen goods, precursor drugs etc etc etc.

Look at the clown that killed himself doing the runner in a Pajero today, what was he thinking? The cops knew the vehicle was stolen, he was never going to out run them and all he managed was to kill himself and take out a power pole.

Making money for the Govt never enters into it.

[madboy]

Some run just to avoid a fine

You run because you don't want to face the consequences. The main reason I do is money. Cheaper to wind it on for a few minutes than stop, get a whopping fine for speeding/no reg, maybe instant loss of license, legal fees, court costs, time away from work to attend court/instruct lawyer, increased hassle and cost of insurance, not to mention sometimes reduced coverage in the form of higher excess etc etc...

I can understand why the guy in the Pajero ran. Not my cup of tea personally since I don't steal shit and don't drive stolen cars, but at the end of the day he's running for basically the same reason I am. He didn't want to face the consequences. It's all about the threshold for where YOU consider a runner is justified. For me, on the bike, I know the odds are stacked heavily in my favour, but in the family wagon it's the other way around, so I'd stop.

For this loser who killed himself, he was facing some fairly hefty consequences with a stolen car, implicated in a burg plus whatever else leads from it (maybe some drugs in the car or his house when they identify him, who knows??) so the slimest chance that he could get away, the most minute possibility, would be enough to justify it.

I'm just glad the f***er killed himself, saved us contributing members of society half the costs that SM outlined abouve.

[Lou Girardin]

But in the final analysis, is it worth it? Mr Pajero killed himself, but could as easily killed the driver of the Falcon he hit. The Eagle was tracking him, did he have to be pursued in that manner right across Auckland in heavy traffic just because the car is stolen?
After all, the cops aren't interested in car thefts when they're reported to them, so why is it so much more important when the thief is caught in the act?
Thrill of the chase?

[Indoo]

The Eagle was tracking him, did he have to be pursued in that manner right across Auckland in heavy traffic just because the car is stolen??

In what manner? From what the papers have said Police backed off from the chase but guy still kept driving like an absolute idiot thus creating the need to stop him by blocking him in or spiking him. And even with Eagle ahead you still actually need cops on the ground to arrest the guy when/if he stops or chase him on foot if he drives into a mall and does a bunk etc.

The alternative is to let him continue stealing cars and burgling houses secure in the knowledge that even if he is caught in the act he can drive like an idiot and the Police will let him go. Its a bit of a catch 22 situation , criminals nowadays are actually driving more dangerously because they believe that as soon as they do something dangerous Police will abandon the chase. By not chasing it only reinforces this message to crims and encourages them to drive like idiots.

After all, the cops aren't interested in car thefts when they're reported to them, so why is it so much more important when the thief is caught in the act?
Thrill of the chase?

What makes you say that? All stolen cars are repeatedly broadcasted across the radio with rego, description, time, date and location stolen and put on stolen vehicle lists for cops to watch for. Obviously its important when the thief is caught behind the wheel just as its important when a burgular is caught inside a house.

[Motu]

As someone who has had stuff stolen over the years - they pick this guy up and go to his home with a legal excuse and find the booty from half a doz robberies....or a P lab,whatever - I doubt if it was just a stolen car,there would be a story behind it.

[Lou Girardin]

What makes you say that? All stolen cars are repeatedly broadcasted across the radio with rego, description, time, date and location stolen and put on stolen vehicle lists for cops to watch for. Obviously its important when the thief is caught behind the wheel just as its important when a burgular is caught inside a house.

So why don't they respond when called and told that the offenders are breaking into the car?
Unfortunately indoo, you guys aren't doing too well at catching burglars or car thieves. Read the Herald series on Police responses that was run lately?
Person after person relating how the Police have just not responded to calls or even followed up crimes when the offenders have been identified and their details handed to them.
The constant refrain from the Police is "lack of resources". Then we, the public, see multiple Police vehicles at speed traps.

[Indoo]

Get yourself a scanner or something Lou and have a listen. Ive never seen an instance yet where Police haven't responded to someone breaking into cars, even when all the incident cars, deltas, traffic cars are already at jobs they will drag out a CIU/CIB car or get a car from another area to attend.

Your misguided if you think Police don't attend because they are busy catching speeders, traffic cars in Auckland at least seem to spend half their time going to domestics/burgs etc or attending crashes etc. They are used to back up incident cars and also attend all the priority one jobs where there are no available I-cars.

If you read the Herald articles, even the people who write in complaining admit that there are simply not enough Police to immediately follow up on the complaint. Its not some widespread conspiracy, its a simple fact, there are too few frontline staff and too few investigative staff. Pulling staff off traffic duty just makes the frontline even thinner and actually results in an increase of enquiry files, Police simply won't have enough staff to catch criminals in the act.

[Lou Girardin]

I know of at least one case where people called the Police when they saw scum breaking into their car. There was NO response.
I followed another scumbag who'd hit and ran, was disqualified and a known drug user, for 15 minutes into Auck city. I was talking to Comms the whole time and was told there were no cars available, so I gave up when he turned into Sky City.
2 minutes later while heading back over the bridge I saw 3 police cars (1 HP) on patrol.
No doubt you will have all the reasons in the world why they didn't help. But I don't care.
Neither does most of the public.

[Indoo]

I know of at least one case where people called the Police when they saw scum breaking into their car. There was NO response..

So thats what you base your opinion on that Police don't attend when people are breaking into cars?

2 minutes later while heading back over the bridge I saw 3 police cars (1 HP) on patrol.
No doubt you will have all the reasons in the world why they didn't help. But I don't care.
Neither does most of the public.

Not really much point in arguing, you will believe what you want to believe, but why do you think they didn't help Lou?

[Lou Girardin]

A definite "did not achieve" for that last post indoo.
There are far too many instances to list them all again just for this thread.
Try taking off the cop hat and objectively looking at all the complaints, problems, scandals that have occurred in the last 3 -4 years and then tell me that it doesn't look bad.

[spudchucka]

He just cost the Govt a shit load actually.
If he lived you are looking at $1M +++
i kid you not.

Exactly but it makes for better forum sport to take the simplistic view that anything the police do in relation to traffic enforcement is just about revenue collection for the Govt.

[spudchucka]

After all, the cops aren't interested in car thefts when they're reported to them,

If they weren't interested in taking reports of stolen vehicles, how would they ever arrive in the situation where they are pursuing one? Following up complaints requires evidence and strangely enough an offender driving a stolen vehicle and failing to stop for police is pretty relevant evidence.

[Indoo]

A definite "did not achieve" for that last post indoo.
There are far too many instances to list them all again just for this thread.
Try taking off the cop hat and objectively looking at all the complaints, problems, scandals that have occurred in the last 3 -4 years and then tell me that it doesn't look bad.

And what causes those instances Lou? Do you think Police are delibrately not responding just to piss the public off, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the Police association has been warning for years of chronic understaffing and yet nothing has been done about it.

Most frontline cops I know go from job to job without any respite, half the time they don't even get a chance for a meal break in a 9 or so hour long shift and wind up doing unpaid overtime at the end of it. They aren't sitting on there arses ignoring 111 calls.

The public voted labour back in so really what can they complain about?

[madboy]

Given the voting pattern in the last election I'm not entirely convinced we did vote Labour back in. But hey, coming from one who works for an organisation completely lacking in intergrity, I guess I can't complain that you may think that way.

I've listened to a scanner... frequently. I've heard many occasions where there are plenty of HP units around, but no one available to attend any general duties work. I guess AUcklanders are lucky that their revenue gatherers are available to do some non-income generating work. They don't appear to be available all that often in Wgtn.

I don't know you to judge you, Indoo. I don't give a rats arse about whether the police are under-resourced or whatnot - in fact I don't disagree that the general/investigative arm are. But while we're getting snapped for 61k in a 50 zone, and someone's getting their house/car done just up the road - how can that be a positive thing?