Overtaking whilst on a group ride

[ScumKiller2]

Motorcycling 101: assume no one can see you. Bike B should assess the situation, and pass if he feels it is safe, BUT assume that bike A will not see him and likely attempt the passing manouver anyway.

ie. Bike B should have a plan B.

Personally though, I'd probably let the slower guy get alongside the car at least before going past.......

[scumdog]

See the posts in the thread 'SPEED' regarding somebodys suggestion that there be 4 stages of licence with 1 being slow (for those not so skilled) and 4 being a much higher speed allowed to those who are experienced/more skilled.

And then think of your incident and having a bunch of 1 to 4 stage riders in the bunch.....

Probably a good thing we don't have the 1 to 4 stage licence eh, as it seems that certain riders struggle to cope with one!! (ok pedants, yes we have two - the learner speed thing).

[madboy]

Defensive riding should prevail (ironic that I should say that). When in a group I always feel nervous and am extra vigilant and cautious. Doesn't matter whose fault it is, you're gonna feel really bad if you and someone you're riding with end up in the same ditch.

Personally, when I've got a faster rider behind me, I wave them through, and a lot of riders I've been with seem to share the same philosophy. Takes the guess work outta the "have the seen me?" "can I pass?" "when are they passing?" questions.

But refer to paragraph one - pass really really fast, but leave an out, and you'll avoid feeling like a dickhead.

[stunz]

If theres a bike behind me that wasnt there a second ago, then hes probably going faster than me. And me, being the safety-conscientious, forgiving and well-adjusted rider that I am, will move to the left to allow them to pass.

It has always been my philosophy that if you are seen to move over to the non-overtaking side of the lane, you are acknowledging to the rider of A that they can pass if they want...
Also, if i was going to overtake the cage, I would have flipped on my indicator...

[Rashika]

So how would you do it in a car?
For me exactly same as a bike, just gets a little more complicated cos there can be more than just one bike to worry about. I'd always let the faster guys go before me ...usually dont have a choice anyway

Any Overtaker always needs to be the one to be cautious: they are the one going on the other side of the road, and potentially about to cause an accident.
Be aware of every possibility... yes the slow car/bike WILL pull out on you... expect them to, give them a couple of secs to decide and if they dont, its your turn.... and the other usual yadda applies: always look behind before you move out, and use ya damn indicators, they aint just painted on....okay some may well be

[Paul in NZ]

There is a DVD about which advises about riding in groups...

This is just ONE problem with riding in groups and at the risk of sounding like a stupid old prick (again) it is one of the more angerous times to be riding a bike. Bike running into the back of another bike is almost comon in the group ride situation.

Personally, Bike B should wait until bike A sorts it's shit out BUT if Bike A is not going to pass they A should wave B through!

If you are going to overtake... Signal well in advance your intention...

IF Bike B does decide to go.... Go wide...

The most dangerous time of all is when you are not actually in a group but are caught up with in traffic by a faster (more risk friendly?) biker...

Same thing happens with cars / motorway etc... Dangerous situation...

Cheers

[sels1]

In all cases where a vehicle (bike or not) is going to overtake they should check their mirror AND head check before pulling out, so bike A should see bike B ok.

Now we know what should happen, but reality is we know that it doesn't at times. Knowing this bike B would be wise to be wary anyway.

I don't see a need to wait for the slow bike to pass first, but I think they appreciate the support. Also if they are noobe it may be better to take care not to freak them out.

Yeah I agree with that. And with the person who said always assume they havnt seen you.
Welcome aboard the site btw Stranger

[SlowHand]

on a smaller boik, you need to ask the boik if it wants to over take, then the boik consults with the road conditions, only then u can pass maybe. Both should take care I reckon, but if the big bike can give some room to the smaller bike, it would be betterer.

ps. Pyro - ur sis looks fine in you avatar bro!

[WRT]

As a general rule of thumb, rider B should never assume that either rider A or car A (or B, C, D, etc etc) has seen him. As such, while I think that rider A does have an obligation to check his mirrors before pulling out to over take, rider B also needs to bear in mind that mirrors on bikes are (in the main) not all that great and rider A's main focus will be on the road ahead not whats coming up behind.

If rider A does happen to notice a faster bike behind him, he needs to do one of two things - either move up on the back right corner of the car to signal his intent to over take (and then do so and the earliest safe moment), or pull over to the left hand side of the lane and drop back to allow the faster bike room to move up in front of him and into the "ready-to-overtake" position.

[Mongoose]

The onus for a safe passing manouver is on the overtaker, is it not?
Neither rider should assume anything about the other rider.
And off the topic a bit, when riding in a group who ever is third(or further back) is ALWAYS playing catch up

[aff-man]

Well i think that as in most cases the responsibility is on the passer. I have come across a situatiobn a few times when i have been behind a slower bike that was behind a car. The slower bike was sitting in the right side of the lane but was unable to pass the car where i easily would have. Thus my conundrum, not knowing if the slower bike was gonna suddenly pull out and getting frustrated because i'm not able to take advantage of the twisties (usually the case). So what does one do?? Sure the passer should be responsible but should the slower bike also make sure he isn't holding anyone back. Staying in your comfort zone is what it's all about, but if i am comfortable overtaking in places the bike in front of me isn't what should i do??

[Toast]

My view point was that the bike behind should wait untill the slower bike has passed and then pass the slower bike. Thats what i'd do if I were the faster bike unless the slower bike pulled to the left to let me through. Just seems a bit more curtious / safer that way. If I were the slower bike and couldn't find a good place to pass the car within a reasonable period, then i'd pull left to let the other bike through. However i'd expect the bike behind to give me a fair crack at overtaking the car first.

Yeah, for sure. Don't overtake him if you think he's going to overtake...and be 100% certain about...thus you unless he waves you past, don't go (maybe if he's REAL slow and you can be past him in about .25 of a second and you're sure he's not gonna go for it...then go, but give him a real wide berth)

[Lou Girardin]

Hi,

Lets say you're in a group ride where there's a bit of a riding pace differential between different members of a group.
This is sort of hard to explain so i've drawn a picture which shows what I mean.

Lets say that you're one of the 'faster' riders (bike B) and you pull up behind one of the slower riders (bike A) who is still faster than the car and is waiting for a good place to overtake the car.

Should bike B wait for bike A to overtake the car and then overtake the slower rider or should he just pass them both at the same time?

The reason I ask is I nearly saw a couple of high speed accidents yesterday due to bike A pulling out to overtake the car without realising that bike B was pulling out to overtake them both.

My view point was that the bike behind should wait untill the slower bike has passed and then pass the slower bike. Thats what i'd do if I were the faster bike unless the slower bike pulled to the left to let me through. Just seems a bit more curtious / safer that way. If I were the slower bike and couldn't find a good place to pass the car within a reasonable period, then i'd pull left to let the other bike through. However i'd expect the bike behind to give me a fair crack at overtaking the car first.

Is there a general guide line about this? I imagine its only gonna be a matter of time before theres a high speed collision otherwise.

No. That's what mirrors are for. You don't pull out when being overtaken.
Anyone read the Road Code lately?

[mv.senna]

simple answer to this question really....
unless they've indicated otherwise - by waving the faster rider on, or moving across to the left behind the cage.... then whoever's up first behind the cage, passes first.

if rider "b" is as fast as he probably thinks he is, then he'll be able to find plenty of subsequent passing opportunities once rider "a" gets past the cage, where rider "a" might not have - due to engine size, riding ability, sense of safety/preservation etc

There's nothing more frustrating than being on a smaller bike, waiting for a safe opportunity to get past a cage, only to have some wanker on a bike twice the cc's of yours rip past you...cutting off your opportunity to get safely past the cage, and scaring the shit out of you in the process....

there's been a few group rides, where even though i've made a conscious effort to keep a watch on my mirrors, wave faster riders past, and keep left, I've been "buzzed" and given a hell of a fright by some clown who's mistaken himself for rossi......lets look after each other while we're on group rides guys....it's bad enough having to watch out for the useless cage drivers!

RANT over

[pyrocam]

on a smaller boik, you need to ask the boik if it wants to over take, then the boik consults with the road conditions, only then u can pass maybe. Both should take care I reckon, but if the big bike can give some room to the smaller bike, it would be betterer.

ps. Pyro - ur sis looks fine in you avatar bro!

yeah she does and she asked if your gonna start paying that alimony soon, also do you want your crabs back? But I digress, out of all the monster kb rides, how many crashes have you heard of happening like that. not saying it doesnt happen (touch wood) but i reckon its not that big of a deal, most people will use their disgression on the situation. but I digress, when I was a noob I used to get bling for an avatar, this ones got the most attention yet. but no bling. do people stop handing it out after a while cos 'youve got enuf' Im gonna have to start red-blinging some of the other guys on the board to move up. pt.