Police headquarters aren't retarded.

[scumdog]

I hear you have yours when you get home.

Now ain't that the truth!

[spudchucka]

They think we are.
They're trying to say that a survey on 111 response times, showing that Counties - Manukau averages 31 minutes, is flawed because of a glitch that saw some non-urgent calls included.
Do the expect us to believe that a few irrelevant calls is going to raise the average of thousands of genuine calls from 13 to 31 minutes?
One things for sure, if you live in South Auckland, buy a gun.

Funny how stats and reports are foolproof when quoted to strengthen an arguement but utter bullshit when quoted as a means of discrediting another persons arguement.

We had the same thing in my district a year or two ago (around the time of the Asher girl stuff up). There was a rescue / body recovery job on Mt Taranaki that took about a week to attend to because of apalling weather. That one job stuffed the average response time to well over the required level. Remove the stats for the job / jobs in question and the response times fall within the required levels again.

This is more about a lack of real news and desperate journalists trying to satisfy their editors than it has about anything tangible relating to 111 emergency response times.

[Colapop]

Sometimes that arrival time doesn't get logged (as per my earlier post) due to this obscure item called 'human error'.

THere are too many idiots out there getting themselves in the shit that are 'Human Errors'

[TLDV8]

welll didn't some gunnmint promise more coppers??

Going by some of the dribble written on this site,who in their right mind would join up ..all i ever see is bash the cops...the cops didn't come immediately since my uninsured,no alarm house got burgled..some cop busted my ass when i was going faster than the speed limit..etc etc i'm on my way now to join up ..

[Lou Girardin]

Funny how stats and reports are foolproof when quoted to strengthen an arguement but utter bullshit when quoted as a means of discrediting another persons arguement.

We had the same thing in my district a year or two ago (around the time of the Asher girl stuff up). There was a rescue / body recovery job on Mt Taranaki that took about a week to attend to because of apalling weather. That one job stuffed the average response time to well over the required level. Remove the stats for the job / jobs in question and the response times fall within the required levels again.

This is more about a lack of real news and desperate journalists trying to satisfy their editors than it has about anything tangible relating to 111 emergency response times.

Your bosses released the stats. Then they tried to bullshit us when they realised how bad they look.
Can't get more tangible than your own info Spud.

[Ixion]

Actually, as far as policing goes, the whole response time thing is a crock. It's an admission of failure to start with, because it pretty much means that a crime has been committed. If someone's been murdered, having the cops get there in 10 minutes rather than 20 minutes misses the point. No matter how fast they get there, the victims's still dead. Same for any other crime. Once the crime's committed the damage is done. It's a failure for policing.

The BEST policing is when crimes don't happen in the first place. You don't get bashed, your house doesn't get burgled, your bike doesn't get stolen, nobody crashes.

That's why the "copper on the beat" (which I suppose nowdays is General Duties) is worth far more than the detective., The latter only has a job to do once policing has already failed. Never going to be perfect, so some detectives, "I cars " etc will always be needed. But the more of them there are, the more importance there is placed on "response time" , the more you know that policing is failing.

Problem is that the copper who prevents a crime just by being there , in the nature of things , gets no credit. He can't go back and say "Hi Sarge, I prevented 50 crimes on my shift today". So the detective , who can say "IO solved 6 crimes today" gets the kudos.Modern measurment of police "effectiveness" depends on having a high crime rate , which is why you won't see crime rates comiong down. There's too much unrecognised

[spudchucka]

Your bosses released the stats. Then they tried to bullshit us when they realised how bad they look.
Can't get more tangible than your own info Spud.

What bullshit? Show me how, where or why you know it to be bullshit.

[WINJA]

They think we are.
They're trying to say that a survey on 111 response times, showing that Counties - Manukau averages 31 minutes, is flawed because of a glitch that saw some non-urgent calls included.
Do the expect us to believe that a few irrelevant calls is going to raise the average of thousands of genuine calls from 13 to 31 minutes?
One things for sure, if you live in South Auckland, buy a gun.

IM TRYING TO BUY A GUN AT THE MOMENT IVE BEEN DECLINED A LICENCE 3 TIMES , FUCKIN PIGS , FUCK WAIT TILL I GET MY GUN

[spudchucka]

The police hierachy need things to measure so that they have something to report on to Govt and show them what good pricks they are.

Things like response times and tickets issued are easily measurable whereas community policing projects and other crime prevention measures are extremely difficult to measure.

I do however think that it is appropriate to set goals in relation to response times and to review performance. Priority one jobs can effectively be anything involving serious risk to persons or property. It could be a drunk or mentally impaired person walking along a busy road, a suicide attempt, a domestic, a car crash, burglars on, a shoplifting, a missing child etc etc etc. People call for help for all manner of things, not just murders and other crimes where rapid response will make no difference to the victim involved.

As a side note, don't expect the crime rate to drop when we get more cops on the streets. More cops out and about means that there are more sets of eyes out there detecting and responding to incidents and more cops writing reports of incidents that would have otherwise been writen off due to under resourcing.

[Patrick]

.... More cops out and about means that there are more sets of eyes out there detecting and responding to incidents and more cops writing reports of incidents that would have otherwise been writen off due to under resourcing.

And more snakes to spread about...and bloody long lines at the donut shop!!!

[Skyryder]

Am I saying we should all be able to carry guns??? ... no. What I'm saying is that we as a society need to start talking about the issue of self defence instead of continuing on with this flawed idea of protection from some outside agency.

diatribe ends...

Any citizen that is carrying a weapon, be it a knife or firearm is a danger to their fellow citizens. The idea that we here in New Zealand need to start talking about this subject, simply because the Police have not got the lid on the 111 system is symptomatic of many New Zealanders ignorance on this subject. Does annyone here realy think that arming yourself is going to make you or your family safer. Does anyone think that once the citizenry of this country once armed, that the criminals are going to be too scared to illegaly arm themselves.

THERE'S ENOUGH FUCKING DANGERS OUT THERE NOW WITHOUT ADDING ANOTHER ONE TO WORRY ABOUT.

If you realy want to know how the looney brigade thinks on this, log on to some American militia forum sites.

Skyryder

[WINJA]

Does annyone here realy think that arming yourself is going to make you or your family safer.

Skyryder

WELL DER YA FUCKEN MORON OF COURSE YOUR SAFER IF YOUR ARMED , IF SOME DICK IS WALKING UP MY DRIVE WITH A KNIFE OR GUN AND I GET OUT MY GUN THEN IT EVENS THINGS UP , MAYBE TO THE POINT WHERE THE OFFENDER LEAVES.
ID MUCH RATHER TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY FAMILIES SAFETY ,THE PIGS ARE NOT RELIABLE AND EVEN IF THEY WERE THET CANT BE THERE WITHIN TEN SECONDS .
YOU SOUND LIKE A PUSSY TO ME SKYRYDER

[tracyprier]

Any citizen that is carrying a weapon, be it a knife or firearm is a danger to their fellow citizens. The idea that we here in New Zealand need to start talking about this subject, simply because the Police have not got the lid on the 111 system is symptomatic of many New Zealanders ignorance on this subject. Does annyone here realy think that arming yourself is going to make you or your family safer. Does anyone think that once the citizenry of this country once armed, that the criminals are going to be too scared to illegaly arm themselves.

THERE'S ENOUGH FUCKING DANGERS OUT THERE NOW WITHOUT ADDING ANOTHER ONE TO WORRY ABOUT.

If you realy want to know how the looney brigade thinks on this, log on to some American militia forum sites.

Skyryder

Here's some advise Skyrider; READ THE FUCKING POST PROPERLY BEFORE RAVING AT PEOPLE !

What did I say?? I said that I was NOT talking about everyone walking around "tooled up".

The law on self defense in this country is an ambiguous nonsense with no clear cut definitions of "reasonable force" or "immediate danger".

Take recent cases of farmers shooting at people trying to steal their quad bikes. Some get off, some get charged.

And you actually think that, at 2am when someone is looming over you with a basball bat that a call to the Police is going to fix everything?

Even the fastest cop in the land will only arrive AFTER you have had the snot beaten out of you.

And that is nothing compared to farmers etc who live miles from the nearest Police station. What are they supposed to do in between the call and the 45 minutes it takes to get out to their place?? Ask the home invaders to just hang on for a bit while the Police arrive??

Wake up man, the Police cannot protect you from attack and it is unreasonable to expect them to.

THAT is why I say we as a society need to bring this subject out into the open and start having some proper, reasoned debate about just what we should expect the Police to be able to do... and what we should be taking responsibility for ourselves, you know that old concept... personal responsibilty.

[Lou Girardin]

Any citizen that is carrying a weapon, be it a knife or firearm is a danger to their fellow citizens. The idea that we here in New Zealand need to start talking about this subject, simply because the Police have not got the lid on the 111 system is symptomatic of many New Zealanders ignorance on this subject. Does annyone here realy think that arming yourself is going to make you or your family safer. Does anyone think that once the citizenry of this country once armed, that the criminals are going to be too scared to illegaly arm themselves.

THERE'S ENOUGH FUCKING DANGERS OUT THERE NOW WITHOUT ADDING ANOTHER ONE TO WORRY ABOUT.

If you realy want to know how the looney brigade thinks on this, log on to some American militia forum sites.

Skyryder

It will definitely make us safer in our homes from external threats. It's been proven in the States many times.
The danger then arises from within the family, accidents, armed rages etc.
but I'm damned sure that in the unlikely event of someone breaking into my home, he will not be walking away. Crawling and screaming, maybe.

[Karma]

Any citizen that is carrying a weapon, be it a knife or firearm is a danger to their fellow citizens. The idea that we here in New Zealand need to start talking about this subject, simply because the Police have not got the lid on the 111 system is symptomatic of many New Zealanders ignorance on this subject. Does annyone here realy think that arming yourself is going to make you or your family safer. Does anyone think that once the citizenry of this country once armed, that the criminals are going to be too scared to illegaly arm themselves.

THERE'S ENOUGH FUCKING DANGERS OUT THERE NOW WITHOUT ADDING ANOTHER ONE TO WORRY ABOUT.

If you realy want to know how the looney brigade thinks on this, log on to some American militia forum sites.

Skyryder

Hmm... It's not an easy answer.

There is obviously the fact of personal and family protection, but you have to consider the escalation factor as well.

If we all start carrying guns, they'll get bigger guns... hmm.

As far as I'm concerned all we own is material. Would you really risk a gunfight with someone just because he wants your TV? It's an invasion of privacy and theft for sure, but it's still only a TV.

Seems like this country (in my limited experience of it) is getting more like America every day, and perhaps not in the better ways.