Why knee down

[speedpro]

why? because you can't?

On an MB100 with the original rib front tyre - absolutely, without touching down my head shortly afterwards. Actually on the road I can't ever remember getting a knee down, probably due to the big old tanks I used to ride, Z1s, XS1100, GSX11s etc. Used to grind the crap out of the pipes and even the engines but getting a knee down, even on "silver dot" Pirelli Phantoms on the track was asking a bit much.
On the bucket though . . . . . yeehaaa, pitch it in. Nice fresh TT900GPs or slicks, lovely

[Coldkiwi]

i can see what you're saying Wkid but i'd generally expect them to spread the impact a bit. And they'd certainly prevent getting a fence post or something through the side of ya knee (small odds but its a fact). 7 weeks bruising is bad- but not as bad as reconstructive surgery and a 3 month recovery!

[Kwaka-Kid]

hey awesome thread here. Some good theory going on etc. And what i think it comes down to is Style, and seat of the pants-what feels right to the rider! I first planted mine on the track just because i kind of had to, and have i think 3 times now on the street in jeans just showing off to my own ego to prove i could do it on the shit metzler crossply tyres and tell my old man! Dont bother on the street now or at least havnt had to. Anyways this is my idea when racing... i hang the most weight to the inside of the corner and as low as possible, general physics as people are saying, it just feels better! and being that close to the ground is no where near as far to fall and helps give me confidence. So Mix putting as much weight as low and far to the inside of the corner as posible.. and going into a corner fast, then faster, then faster still, if i run at the same lean angle i will eventually run too wide off hte track, so i have to make the lean angle more.. and what i end up doing is heading into the corner as fast as possible where i have to lean over as far as my tyres will let me just to make the corner without running off the track (or at least this is my THEORY!) So all this eventually results in my knee scraping, after all that must mean im really stretching out far and obviously as low as i can be... the next reason i have is its interesting, when i lean forward and out and down, and plant my knee.. i can push on it, and then feel my rear wheel slide out! and start to wheel spin like full on whlist going thru the corner, now this was accidental as my rear tyre is stuffed and certainly not out of skill, but man! i wanna try that AGAIN! anyways gotta shoot, keep the ideas and reasons pumping also i guess it acts as a sail to the inside of the corner so very minorly helps pull the bike around. all sorts of little things..

[wkid_one]

i can see what you're saying Wkid but i'd generally expect them to spread the impact a bit. And they'd certainly prevent getting a fence post or something through the side of ya knee (small odds but its a fact). 7 weeks bruising is bad- but not as bad as reconstructive surgery and a 3 month recovery!

doesn't work like that tho...they are small and as they have no absorbant qualities - they do nothing to spread impact

That's why leathers still have armour in the knee

[Coldkiwi]

ah well. my right slider took a few scraps from the gravel when I spun the gixxer in November that I'm glad my leathers didn't have to absorb. looked a bit cheese gratered really but reminds me why I wear full armoured leather! (all you traditional jeans folk listening?)

[Kwaka-Kid]

CK as i think im the only one left, yes, but im prepared to pay the price

[wkid_one]

CK as i think im the only one left, yes, but im prepared to pay the price

So you have leathers KK but ride in jeans??

The leathers will help you lots in an accident hanging up in your Wardrobe

[Kwaka-Kid]

need i list again?. 2x Pairs of Leathers, 2x Back protecters, 2x Cordura style jackets and matching pants with armour inside etc, 1x set of Dririder nylon stuff, 2x 2 piece Line7 wet gear, 6 pairs of boots, i think 12-15 pairs of gloves, 10 odd helmets, 2 thin leather jackets, 2 thick leather jackets, 2 main pairs of levi's.

I share most of this with my old man, we just have 2 full gear wardrobes...
Out of all that gear on the road every day i wear my cheap CMS helmet, (over the Shoei's/Arai or Nolan) whichever pair of 3 favourite boots i grab first or isnt wet, one of my 2 favourite pairs of thin leather gloves, the thickest leather jacket, a pair of levi's and go off to ride! 5 days a week to work its always jeans and jacket, even on these bad as wet days, the jeans dry at work. and i only change if i go for a ride more then 1 hour in the wet where i will mostly grab the Line7 overgear. My dad rides in his pairs of jeans with his thick leather jacket and often a shoei but more recently one of his CMS's, gotta be honest, the other gear is too good to slide down the road on! i dont care about my already ripped jeans and my $100 CMS helmet, the thin gloves i have become attached too, might get a little mad if i ruined them, another $30 will get me a set though. So yeah, when i race however i have to wear a set of leathers and back protecter(which ask any person thats seen me on the track i have forgotten to insert 3x now before going out onto the track).

[Zed]

...Out of all that gear on the road every day i wear my cheap CMS helmet, (over the Shoei's/Arai or Nolan) whichever pair of 3 favourite boots i grab first or isnt wet, one of my 2 favourite pairs of thin leather gloves, the thickest leather jacket, a pair of levi's and go off to ride! ...gotta be honest, the other gear is too good to slide down the road on! i dont care about my already ripped jeans and my $100 CMS helmet, the thin gloves i have become attached too, might get a little mad if i ruined them...

Surely you defeat the purpose of owning good gear if you don't wear it! :disapint:

If you came off your bike tomorrow and your leg got ripped up & your head got concussed badly, would you think twice about wearing the more expensive, fashionable gear? That is, if you could ever ride again?


Zed

[PeteThePom]

Ive seen a racing picture where a guy had an elbow down, (and apparently not a millisecond before the rest of the bike either).

It looked quite unreal.

The old traditional style may have been faster back then ?? but Im sure if it was still the go Team Honda would be doing it (or that Yamaha rider Rossi something...)

Aaron Slight was interviewed in a UK bike mag a couple of years ago when the whole hanging off the bike thing came up, he mentioned getting his foot opposite the corner under the frame rail so he could hang right off, he mentioned getting his elbow down and made a comment about getting your head down if you were brave enough!!

Racers hang off to get a balance between corner speed and grip, if you hang off you lean the bike less and thus have more tyre on the track, however if your riding this close to the edge on the road then you will die, sooner or later. Bods doing it on the road do it only for style/pose value which is fair enough, each to their own. I did a bit of circuit racing in the UK, endurance racing, one of my team mates was big time into getting his knee down, I wasn't and on my good days my lap times were significantly faster but this may have been down to him losing time by concentrating on getting his knee down rather than getting round the corner, I just used to come up to corner and chuck it in with half my backside hanging off but no knee down, oh yeah and it was on race prep'ed mopeds, cheap and slow(then again 70mph on a glorified push bike is relatively fast!) but then we were racing on go-kart tracks and airfields/skidpads!!!

[Kwaka-Kid]

no zed, i accept that the gear i wear could end up leaving me worse off in an accident, the trick im trying to master however, is not having an accident... its a hard one, but im trying. also i learn more if i do come off because i feel it more and workin in auck hosp ive seen what some of those surgeons can do, i make sure before me weekends the zimmer skin graft mesher and the zimmer dermatome are both processed and ready, so im sorted (dont want no nurse using no humby knife poorly on me just taking little bits of skin and stuffing it up! :S)

[Motoracer]

So yeah, when i race however i have to wear a set of leathers and back protecter(which ask any person thats seen me on the track i have forgotten to insert 3x now before going out onto the track).

Would you race in your jeans if you were allowed to?

[White trash]

Ok for all the posers,I know you think it looks good.
But why do it when it so obviously locks you into such an unforgiving nothing else, No where else to go riding style.Years ago I read the writings of Mike Hailwood,A guy who was considered THE BEST,and he made it quite plan he thought it was a stupid idea,And his acheviements proved him RIGHT.So why scrape your pegs when you don't need to,why stick your bloody knee out when you don't need to.After all Mike DID PISS ALL OVER,the riders that used the style.The other great that didn't use the style was AGO'.So here we have
the two best riders of all time both saying it sucks,and proving it,yet we have guys doing it and then complaining of running out of room,running wide and any number of things going wrong that can be attributed directly to this riding style.I mean if you scarpe your pegs and then run wide,why the fuck are you doing it.Have none of you knee down types ever read or taken notice
of the proven best,an thus learnt the error of this crap unforgiving style of riding.And you can forget Kenny Rodgers,He was never as good as either Hailwood or Ago'
You don't belive me,Read the stat's!!!
Running out of road,Scraping your pegs??? What a crock.

Sorry. Joined this thread way to late.

I do it 'cause it's good fun! I don't care if someone thinks it looks queer or someone else thinks it looks cool.

I definitely don't think it makes me faster as I'm sure Jackrat would ride around me and leave me in his wobbling wake on his 650 Special.

I tell ya, it's always the ones you least expect!

[merv]

The gear stories by KK and others above reminds me of 1973 when a mate of mine was the first of us to buy a full face helmet - a bright orange Bell. We didn't have to wear helmets at under 30mph back then so out he goes on his GT380 and pops a wheelie and arses up on the road outside where we were living. He was just slightly battered but thankful he didn't have his new flash helmet on as he might have scratched it.

The wonders of nature, remember you'll mend but your gear won't as its only man made and can't heal itself.

[PeteThePom]

Try this(ON THE TRACK NOT THE ROAD)Go round a corner at a given speed whilst staying in line with the bike, repeat the corner increasing your speed each time till the pegs deck out and note your speed, (this is theoretically our maximum corner speed as leaning further will deck out something more solid that will lift a wheel on the bike and result in a CRASH which wont improve your corner speed!)
Now approach the same corner at the previously noted speed and as you come into it, shift your weight to the inside and adopt the knee down, shoulder in stance....what do you notice? YOU ARE NOT DRAGGING THE PEGS because you have more clearance, you are now in a position(next time round) to increase your corner speed which will use up the increased clearance you have just created, keep doing this until you can't possibly hang off the bike any further, you have now reached maximum speed on this corner(assuming you had your braking point, turn in and apex sussed, all of which will change as you increase your corner speed anyway) Oh and ask Mr Hailwood to kindly move over as he's spoiling your line

Comparing riding techniques from 20 years ago to todays techniques is like comparing a ZX80 computer to a pentium4, they are not relevant. If I tried to ride my old Z1000 Lawson rep the same way I ride my ZRX1100 I'd probably have chucked it down the road on the 1st corner I came to!