NZ Road Toll Now Higher Than Last Year

[mangell6]

We're coming down people... and down quite fast.

FAST, damn speed being the cause of the road toll coming down



There are only three "causes" of accidents, road, car and the one that is only now coming to light the "nut" behind the wheel.

It is good to see that "driver fatigue" "too fast for conditions" being listed as causes of crashes.

As SC has said speed determines the amount of trauma and carnage, which is the result that we all hear about.

This is similar to the gun argument, I have never seen a gun leap up and shoot someone or thing of its own volition, oops wrong thread - someone can start that particular "discussion" somewhere else.

Mike
A responsible for my actions person.

[inlinefour]

Can I call bullshit?

the first post was refferring to the holiday period over Xmas, not overall for the year.

[Lou Girardin]

Speed isn't always the cause of the crash but is almost always a contributing factor. If a car loses control on new seal, crosses the centre line, crashes and kills somebody is it the fault of the new seal or the fact that the vehicle was driven too fast for those conditions? Common sense would tell you that i is a combination of both.

The point being that speed as a cause of crashes isn't really the issue, speed as a causitive / contributing factor in trauma is the real issue because regardless of why the crash happens the resulting trauma is directly linked to the velocity of the crashing vehicles.

Of course speed's a contributing factor, if they didn't move they wouldn't crash. Driver incompetence is a factor in nearly every crash too, more often than not in both party's.
Reducing average speeds by 3 km/h makes not a scrap of difference to trauma.
This is all propaganda to justify the tax take. If Police and LTNZ were serious about reducing road trauma there's other effective measures that can be used.
But, they cost money.

[Lou Girardin]

Can I call bullshit?

New Zealand road deaths 1990-2005
(snip)
2003 - 461
2004 - 435
2005 - 404
Source : NZPA http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/st...ectID=10362106

We're coming down people... and down quite fast.

Nice selection of statistics. Now show 2000 - 2002. It was low 400's then too.
While you're at it, show the reduction between 1990 - 1999. It's even more dramatic and the cops were criticised for doing nothing on the roads.

[Finn]

Nice selection of statistics. Now show 2000 - 2002. It was low 400's then too.
While you're at it, show the reduction between 1990 - 1999. It's even more dramatic and the cops were criticised for doing nothing on the roads.

Good point Lou. Stats (especially coming from the Gov) are basically worthless without comparitive analysis. Besides, I wouldn't trust jack coming from this Gov. On the international front, NZ's road toll isn't too bad at all. When comparing NZ to other countries, you must measure the road toll by kilometres travelled not per-capita.

If our roads were better, straighter and we drove newer cars, it would be even better. Enforcement of speed limits doesn't work anywhere in the world in reducing the road toll.

Interesting stat... 15% of fatalities on NZ roads are caused by drink driving. Therefore it's all the bloody sober drivers doing most of the damage. You've got a better chance of survival if you drive drunk.

Note: The above paragraph is a joke. Do not try this at home. Tests we're conducted in a controlled environment on private roads by professional alchoholics. No beer was spilled during this test.

[Lou Girardin]

Add to these facts that NZ has mind-boggling car ownership rates. Almost as many as NSW and their population is 2.500,000 more.

[thehollowmen]

Nice selection of statistics. Now show 2000 - 2002. It was low 400's then too.
While you're at it, show the reduction between 1990 - 1999. It's even more dramatic and the cops were criticised for doing nothing on the roads.

nah 2000 was mid 400s.. 455 to be exact.

I snipped because it has been coming down since before that. A little variation of one or two years platueing out isn't bad...

[What?]

Interesting stat... 15% of fatalities on NZ roads are caused by drink driving. Therefore it's all the bloody sober drivers doing most of the damage. You've got a better chance of survival if you drive drunk.

Note: The above paragraph is a joke.

Also "borrowed", eh? From a certain Mr Smith...

[spudchucka]

Of course speed's a contributing factor, if they didn't move they wouldn't crash. Driver incompetence is a factor in nearly every crash too, more often than not in both party's.
Reducing average speeds by 3 km/h makes not a scrap of difference to trauma.
This is all propaganda to justify the tax take. If Police and LTNZ were serious about reducing road trauma there's other effective measures that can be used.
But, they cost money.

Targeting speed has reduced mean speeds a lot more than 3kph over time. Even as little as four or five years ago you could go out on any stretch of highway and catch people doing 130+. Those same people are mostly pootling along under 110 now and it is very rare to catch people at high speeds on the open road. This is 100% due to policing the speed limit. People still speed around town though, no highway patrol I guess?

But I don't think speed as the cause of crashes is the major reason for targeting speed, its the trauma factor. Targeting speed is trauma reducing, thats the reason for it. The Govt gets their lovely cash kick back out of it but the cops couldn't care less about the revenue. If they got rid of instant fines for speeding tomorrow and introduced some form of non revenue based penalty the cops wouldn't change a thing in terms of targeted enforcement, the only difference would be the how the outcome effects the offending driver.

Nothing will stop the menace drivers from being idiots on the road but I agree that there is a hell of lot more that could be done if we had more insightfull leaders, (Govt & Police).

[Lou Girardin]

If this were true Spud, why did 21 die over the holiday period?
In year of such good results the toll should have been less than 11, shouldn't it?
Could it be that the toll is random and your efforts make no difference?
Could it also be that outside factors such as the spike in fuel costs reducing km's travelled has more of an effect?

[scumdog]

If this were true Spud, why did 21 die over the holiday period?
In year of such good results the toll should have been less than 11, shouldn't it?
Could it be that the toll is random and your efforts make no difference?
Could it also be that outside factors such as the spike in fuel costs reducing km's travelled has more of an effect?

Last five out of six crashes down here had SPEED as a major factor including the fatal (side by side at 150kph going over a hump in the road).

Got two paralysed kids, another with double amputations, another with rods inserted in spine and the last still in a coma from those crashes - and that's not counting those that are still hobbling/limping around the place after getting discharged from hospital.

One dick-head hit the Warehouse building at speed and took the car off the road for good - the ONLY advantage of speed in a built-up area I've seen.

The only no-speed related one was the truck hitting the bull - but i bet the bull thought the truck was going a bit fast.

Fuel costs make no difference what I've seen around here - just as many V8 XY 'coons and Commodes around as ever.

BTW All the above crashes involved Jappas - for what it's worth.

[Finn]

Also "borrowed", eh? From a certain Mr Smith...

Huh? A banana how long?

[spudchucka]

If this were true Spud, why did 21 die over the holiday period?
In year of such good results the toll should have been less than 11, shouldn't it?
Could it be that the toll is random and your efforts make no difference?
Could it also be that outside factors such as the spike in fuel costs reducing km's travelled has more of an effect?

Have I said that targeting speed is the only factor reducing the road toll? Anyone with half a brain will realise that is a complex matter involving a hell of a lot more than just the percentage the nation exceeds the speed limit by.

21 people died over the holidays because regardless of what the police do people will still behave like children behind the wheel.

All I'm saying is that speed is directly related to trauma in crashes, that is the reason that police target speed.

[madboy]

Last five out of six crashes down here had SPEED as a major factor including the fatal (side by side at 150kph going over a hump in the road).

Sounds to me like DUMB was the major factor. That wasn't by chance the one of TV with the remains of an old 80s Civic? I don't doubt Spuds comments re: speed being directly related to trauma, hell even LTNZ can't beat physics, but you do dumb shit, and hello???

Targeting speed sounds like a reactive rather than a pro-active measure. Speed is directly related to the trauma that occurs as a result of the accident - yes. Reactive. I liken it to electronic stability control vs airbags. One lessens the risk of you having an accident in the first place, the other gives you a better chance of survival only WHEN the accident happens. Otherwise the airbags are completely useless.

On the bike, would you go for a quick blat down to the shops without your 1-piece leathers and back protector? Hell yes. Would you go for a blat down the shops without your brakes? I'd friggin hope not! One protects you in a crash, one stops the crash from happening.

Perhaps as a proactive measure the Govt could legislate that all new cars sold in NZ from XXXX must have ESP (or whatever acronym each manufacturer uses) as standard fitment. Then progressively tighten up on the used imports over a period of time to make them meet the same standards. And put higher specs on tyres - no retreads, no "shit" $49 special tyres. And higher standards of driver training. Over time this will all filter down into the vehicle fleet and driver pool.

Yep - there will still be dumb people. And dumb people will still kill nice ordinary sensible people. Just like they do with guns, knives and bare hands. But it's gonna be a lot easier implementing the above proactive strategies than targeting a small section of the population for extermination. The results won't be immediate... hell, I'm "rich" according to the Govt, I'm big on having a safe car for my family, but I still drive an 8 yo car. But the results will come.

[scumdog]

Sounds to me like DUMB was the major factor. That wasn't by chance the one of TV with the remains of an old 80s Civic? I don't doubt Spuds comments re: speed being directly related to trauma, hell even LTNZ can't beat physics, but you do dumb shit, and hello???

But it's hard to legislate against 'stupid' and the incidents I mentioned ALL happened because a stupid person was driving too FAST - and you can legislate against a certain amount of that.

Yep on of the cars was the old Honda, take the 'stupid' out and MAYBE they might not have gone so fast (yeah right!) but if they hadn't been going so quick there's a good chance they wouldn't have crashed and/or the injuries to bad.
Young people = "Never going to happen to ME!" and "Yeah yeah, what the hell do YOU know?"