NZ Road Toll Now Higher Than Last Year

[Pixie]

Have a look at canada and they have INCREASED their speed limits, they looked at the 85 percentile rule and made a sensible law! and i seem to remember their D/toll was the same as the rest of us , ie NZ was no better or no worse than our trading partners,,,

For all the people that have asked what is the alternative and how bad it would be with less/no enforcement.
This is the answer.People will travel at the speed they are comfortable at.The average speed would not increase significantly.
Police dangerous driving not speed.
And teach the cop what dangerous is.

[Pixie]

I haven't met a driver/rider I could call consistently competent at an average level 100% of the time. Yet. I have met pilots who are utter loons on terra firma, but they are the most intensely safety concious, procedure oriented pilots who will put an aircraft down precisely on the same pice of tarmac (within a metre or two) everytime, and who take pride in improving their skills and knowledge. .

This is probably due to the fact that you don't stand a good chance of walking away from a plane crash.
Cars are too safe.
Put an obvious danger in all of them,analogous to the 500 feet a plane will drop before it hits the ground.
I like the 6 inch spike in front of the driver's forehead idea.

[Monsterbishi]

Well, road toll is now up to 20.

[marty]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/st...ectID=10362106

but there's obviously some idiots on the road at the moment

[marty]

I have been involved in the Aviation industry for 27 years now especially in the area of pilot training and competency. One thing that aviation does, among others, in the light of increasing accident trends, is look at the role that crew training and competency plays and often the major changes are in that area. In todays modern aviation environment we continue to develop more advanced aircraft and Air traffic control solutions to avoid the "Dirt coming thu the front windows" and it has been identified that it is the crew (driver) element that is now a major weak link as engines rarely fail, wings just don't snap off anymore and, plainly speaking, we now know where all the mountains are.. Aviation as a responsible industry will allways attempt to improve the area of crew training and competency to combat accident statistics and as a whole are very open to new and improved suggestion on how to achieve it. We don't play Tom and Jerry entrapment games and we don't collect revenue off peoples mistakes instead we collect Knowledge and then pass it on in the form of training and thus change attitudes (the people grow with the technology).. Anyone remenber the Dash 8 that crashed at Palmerston North and the Palmy police took their usual stand by trying to thump the Captain for manslaughter with no regard for why it had happened. That approach to an accident investigation rocked the aviation industry to the core worldwide and resulted in a lot of legislation changes to stop what you could call "A good old thumping" getting in the way of finding the truth to prevent further (the Palmy plod are now famous worldwide for their ability to fuck up an aviation accident investigation).

OK why all this crap about planes and stuff? Well I reckon we have some parallels here in that we have seen some fairly quick advances in motor vehical technology. Whilst we can acknowledge a fair bit of change in driver licencing it is now just a bit more than the road code and a multi guess "scratchy" exam.. The thing that I notice is that the "human factors" such as hazardous attitudes, complacency and anger are poorly addressed and that the attitude from our regulators seems to be one of punish, collect some money and put nothing back into the industry to prevent it happening again (not even the money). They just don't seem to be thinking too far ahead and as roads and cars get safer we as the road user are still floundering around with a 20 year outdated safety regulator that would rather sit around with speed cameras than become proactive in driver education and competency.
It is a fundamental leadership issue in my view that is the root of the problem and until our regulators pull thier heads out of the sand and join the 21st century, we are going to see our road toll continue to climb.

hey there's your answer! make cars so expensive that they have to be hired (like aeroplanes) and have the hirer vet every driver's (pilot's) logbook before handing over the keys.

and yes, i am involved in aviation.

[madboy]

Spud, don't take it personally, but the bollocks you spout is the exact reason why I don't hang around for a chat with your brethren. I don't recall being chased on a bike for doing anything that would earn me a dangerous driving charge. Okay, once the chases began, different story, and EVERY time the lunatic with the 1600kg weapon behind me was doing much the same as I was on my 170kg weapon. EVERY time the plod have wanted a word about my riding it's initially been for exceeding the speed limit, and most times within 30k of the limit. Not dangerous. If the 5-0 policed dangerous driving/riding, I'd have never experienced a runner.

I agree with many others here, even you to an extent, in that it's the idiots, the stupid ones. But I don't see exceeding the speed limit as stupid. I don't see passing on yellows stupid. I don't see running red lights as stupid. Wrong time and place, yeah, it's f***ing stupid. But right time and place it's a nothing. The dumbing down of our road enforcement to the point where there is no longer discretion or common sense applied is the true definition of stupid, and your attitude displayed here just demonstrates exactly why our police force is so unloved and ineffective at policing road safety.

Spud, if the cops are doing so right, answer me this. A camera van frequently sits on the Wgtn mway, just north of Aotea Quay. Usually during the day. 3-lane each way, median barriered section of mway, the nearest intersection is the offramp to Ngauranga Gorge, more than a kilometre up the road. I can take the "corner" section that the camera hides just after at over 200k in either bike or car, without leaving the lane. Clearly it's not a sharp corner then. Last accident I recall there was a rubbish truck that slide across the road and landed on the barrier. It was pissing down with rain, and about 7am. I bet you the truck was doing less than 110k. There's also the odd nose to tail in rush hour (and I bet they weren't doing over 110k either). WHAT CONTRIBUTION IS THAT CAMERA MAKING TO ROAD SAFETY?

At least some of the other cops around here are a little more honest. They're just towing the party line, doing what they're told. But you seem to actually believe the bullshit that you're spouting. Quite frankly, it scares me. I really thought cops had to be smarter than that.

[TLDV8]

Road Toll
Has anyone thought (In this day of PC and hand holding) how crazy being able to drive on single lane roads and actually go into the opposing lane to overtake is..... If there was no such such thing as this mode of transport and someone came up with the idea today they would probably be told to !@#$ off with such a looney idea?......Nothing wrong with the concept excepting the corners,overtaking and following others. ...It should all work out when we are confined to single file in little boxs that run between metal guide rails... kind of like the Ghost Train at the Easter show.

[Swoop]

A camera van frequently sits on the Wgtn mway, just north of Aotea Quay. Usually during the day. 3-lane each way, median barriered section of mway, the nearest intersection is the offramp to Ngauranga Gorge, more than a kilometre up the road. I can take the "corner" section that the camera hides just after at over 200k in either bike or car, without leaving the lane. Clearly it's not a sharp corner then. Last accident I recall there was a rubbish truck that slide across the road and landed on the barrier. It was pissing down with rain, and about 7am. I bet you the truck was doing less than 110k. There's also the odd nose to tail in rush hour (and I bet they weren't doing over 110k either). WHAT CONTRIBUTION IS THAT CAMERA MAKING TO ROAD SAFETY?

Not knowing the area, I have to guess that this is an accident "black spot" so the authorities have the "permission of the public" (because they "will only be used in accident areas") to place a camera there???

[SlashWylde]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/st...ectID=10362106

but there's obviously some idiots on the road at the moment

Some interesting stats there:

"A total of 404 people died on New Zealand roads last year – 31 fewer than in 2004 and the lowest yearly road toll since 1963, Land Transport New Zealand said today."

Also:

"As recently as 1990 there were 729 road deaths. Since then annual road deaths have dropped by nearly 45 per cent, in spite of a 38 per cent increase in the number of vehicles on the road and a 20 per cent increase in population."

Out of interest I plotted the number of deaths against the year in question and performed a linear regression on the plot extrapolating out to 2010. If the trend continues along this line it looks like the LTNZ will get their result of less than 300 road deaths per year by 2010. So on cursory inspection it would appear that the un-popular and dogmatic approach taken by the govt over the last 15 years is working.

My argument still stands tho - that more could be donet to train and rigourously test new drivers; have a graduated licencing system for new young drivers including HP output levels for cars based on age and proven experience, and less of the rigid dogmatic apprach to speed and alchol being the main contributing factors to the road toll whilst effectively ignoring all else.

[terbang]

Speed cameras only target one certain area. They don't record Drunken/stoned pricks, Tailgaters, people with no WOF, people chatting on cellphones, those that have been driving for 10 hours and so on an on. They are just a cop out way of policing and a revenue gathering exercise and I suspect the money doesn't get poured back into improving standards..
Statistics can be modded in any way to suit any arguement like these guys have done so draw your own conclusions between the Police and these guys.

[madboy]

Out of interest I plotted the number of deaths against the year in question and performed a linear regression on the plot extrapolating out to 2010. If the trend continues along this line it looks like the LTNZ will get their result of less than 300 road deaths per year by 2010. So on cursory inspection it would appear that the un-popular and dogmatic approach taken by the govt over the last 15 years is working.

Bet ya it doesn't though. Dimishing returns will kick it at some point, if it hasn't already. Don't let LTNZ see that graph though, else they'll start telling us that by 2030 driving will be producing lives.

Congestion as much as anything else has slowed down average speeds. Have you actually tried driving Wgtn-Auck lately? All things being equal, I cruise at 120-150 in the car on the open road. But I've been finding it almost impossible to actually maintain those speeds for any more than a short distance since there's so much traffic and so many more yellow lines. Now I might have a cavalier attitude to them on the bike, but in the car I tend to err on the side of caution unless I know the road well enough to know they're in the wrong place or just plain excessive (which more frequently they are becoming).

Stupid people cause crashes. And since NZ is full of stupid people, there will always be deaths. NZers are becoming good sheep and following the propaganda bandwagon, speed is killing us, so the idea of being even better electronically guided formation driving sheep is only a matter of years away. If you can't create intelligent people, you create technology that saves them from themselves.

Now where's my jandals? I need a quick trip to the shops...

[SlashWylde]

Bet ya it doesn't though. Dimishing returns will kick it at some point, if it hasn't already. Don't let LTNZ see that graph though, else they'll start telling us that by 2030 driving will be producing lives.

Aggreed. I think in the next few years, the curve will tend to an asymptote. What concerns me is whether the govt considers the stats gathered from road deaths etc to be indicative of a purely linear system. i.e. one that continues in a straight line for ever. Hence the tounge in cheek prediction of negative deaths by 2025.

[Swoop]

0 deaths by 2025, that would be an achievement.

All this is happening while our population has grown to over 4 million "kiwis".

The scary part is the fact that alcohol was involved in the minority of deaths. So statistically it's safer to drive drunk. (Using statistics to prove any point possible ) the sober drivers are the more dangerous ones... ?

[Clockwork]

IMO the fixed camaras seem to do a pretty good job and in most cases seem to be placed to improve road safety but from what I have observed the mobile camera placements seem to to have only two criteria;
1.) Is the position safe for the operator.
2.) Is there some concealing cover or shade available.

[scumdog]

Have a look at canada and they have INCREASED their speed limits, they looked at the 85 percentile rule and made a sensible law! and i seem to remember their D/toll was the same as the rest of us , ie NZ was no better or no worse than our trading partners,,,

Yeah, but the Canadians generally drive a shit-load better than the average Kiwi driver - who has NO idea what courtesy and consideration are let alone safety!

Kiwi drivers are like 8 year old boys at a birthday party - it's all me! me! me!, push and shove and devil take the hindmost.