Bring on those brakes!

[wkid_one]

Motu - when flattracking/dirt etc don't you just control with your arse end and throttle? I never done it so don't know

[Hoon]

Yes the "No brakes drill" as mentioned by Keith Code in his Soft Science book is a great training tool.

I found that I was over braking before some turns (esp the hairpin and going into turn #2 at Puke) and as a result had to accelerate a little before turning in or continue rolling towards the corner and take the turn at a lower than desirable corner speed (both methods losing precious time).

So I tried the no brakes method which basically forces you to concentrate totally on getting the perfect turn entry speed without stressing about braking in time (corner speed is everything on my top-endless 250). The end result is that you become a better judge of speed and can better duplicate that entry speed consistently lap after lap instead of relying on the "brake at this marker, this hard, until this location" method of judging your entry speed.

Now I found that if I overbrake while under hard braking and I slow to my target entry speed sooner than expected, I immediately realise this and will back off the brakes sooner whereas before I wouldn't have noticed until I had finished braking just before the turn and had just begun turning in.

[wkid_one]

Ho Hoon - it was you that keep missing the first left hander at Puke and kept coming to visit Slim and I on the tyre by Castrol wasn't it?

[Motu]

Motu - when flattracking/dirt etc don't you just control with your arse end and throttle? I never done it so don't know

I'm sure if OwlMorris is lurking he could explain it in detail in 3 pages - for flattracking the bike is thrown sideways to scrub off speed,sliding both wheels until the apex,then the turn is squared off with a powerslide exit...it's a fight the whole way and never feels natural no matter how well you set the bike up - but the Owl has ridden a Trackmaster and says it did it all by itself.One of the few people in NZ to master the art.

I have never ridden a speedway bike myself,but it's a whole different ball game,the bike being designed from the outset to be sideways,the bike is tossed into the turn with the power on al la a rally car,the rear wheel must be kept spinning the whole time,if it hooks up in a corner it's game over.That's why they don't ride at the Springs anymore,the track is super grippy clay.

It's possible to powerslide a flattracker around like a speedway bike,but not as fast,I have done it on a well set up flattracker,just to see how early I could get the power on.Actualy I will tell you a story of it being done,just to show how guts and determination can win through.

Bryce Subritzky was the force behind Rosebank Speedway and he helped get the stock bike or flattrack class going - we used to ride all sorts of shit down there back then,street bikes and motocrossers,the only rules were no knobs and no brakes.So someone has an RM250 or something that was ''unriderable'' just a killer bike.Crap says Bryce,I could ride that thing around there,you guys just don't know how to ride.OK then you silly old fart,have a go! So out he goes - he was only a little guy and really ''old'' back then,the handlebars were level with his chin - he drops the bike in the first corner,picks it up and drops it again,this went on and on and was really embarassing,it was obvious that he just couldn't handle it.We were turning away because we just couldn't bear to watch this silly old fool make an idiot of himself - but hey! there he is just powering around like a speedway bike! WOW! that shut everyone up,well,we gave him some bloody good applause...but he sure earned a lot of respect from me for that.

[Grumpy]

I used to use both brakes all the time until I did a track day at Taupo. Brian Bernard was there giving us a few tips on track craft etc..

He was saying that he's never changed a rear brake pad since he started racing as he never uses the rear brake.

Since then I started to try using the rear only and found it pretty good. I was riding my TL then. Since I've had my GSX1400 I found it better to go back to using both since it's a shitload heavier than the TL. Locking the rear wheel isn't such an issue.

[pete376403]

My bro-in-law made a lot of alloy parts for Bruce Ansteys TZ250, including a rear disc. Weighed next to nothing, and was only ever used in scruitineering.
He said he *never* used the rear brake on the track

[Hoon]

Ho Hoon - it was you that keep missing the first left hander at Puke and kept coming to visit Slim and I on the tyre by Castrol wasn't it?

Yeah yeah ok But that was my first track day back after sorting a major problem with my bike and as a result it ran ten times better. I could carry an extra 20kph around Jenian but unfortunately the fix didn't make my braking or steering any quicker so it took a few sessions to get use to the extra speed.

[White trash]

My bro-in-law made a lot of alloy parts for Bruce Ansteys TZ250, including a rear disc. Weighed next to nothing, and was only ever used in scruitineering.
He said he *never* used the rear brake on the track

Funny you should say that. When I was 17, I was at a race meeting at Manfeild, organised by Vic club. Me and a mate volunteered for flag marshaling and were posted in "Coke".

Mr Ainstey, leading the F1 race by a huge margin, was lifting the rear wheel of the TZ 2-3 inches off the track EVERY SINGLE LAP at 140mph!

Ever since then, Bruce has been my favourite local racer to watch. (Don't tell The Peoples Hero I said that)

[Des Truction]

EYE always use both ,but vary the presure automaticly . JUST GO WITH THE FLOW

[Des Truction]

EYE always use both ,but vary the presure automaticly . JUST GO WITH THE FLOW

[pete376403]

Funny you should say that. When I was 17, I was at a race meeting at Manfeild, organised by Vic club. Me and a mate volunteered for flag marshaling and were posted in "Coke".

Mr Ainstey, leading the F1 race by a huge margin, was lifting the rear wheel of the TZ 2-3 inches off the track EVERY SINGLE LAP at 140mph!

Ever since then, Bruce has been my favourite local racer to watch. (Don't tell The Peoples Hero I said that)

Bruce has awesome balance - he had a ProFlex "Animal" mountainbike which he would ride around the pits on the back wheel just to psych opponents out. I believe he's over in UK at present, hasn't been back here for a while.

[laRIKin]

All that I would like to add (my 2 cents worth) is.
When I was road racing we did not use the rear brake, mainly because the
wheel was in the air, so it would do very little to help you slow down.
And if it was on the ground, there was not enough weight to do much good.

In saying that, the rear brake must still have its place.
On and off the race track, because if it didn,t.
Why did the great Mick Doohan, go to all of the trouble to get the famous,
thumb brake for the rear wheel.

I think that the rear brake is sometimes over looked, because it can be harder
to control because of the small amount of extra braking that it can give.

And it is one more thing to worry about, when you are on YOUR limit going
around a corner.

[wkid_one]

In saying that, the rear brake must still have its place.
On and off the race track, because if it didn,t.
Why did the great Mick Doohan, go to all of the trouble to get the famous,
thumb brake for the rear wheel.

Modern track riders use the rear brake to back the bike in to the corner

[dangerous]

Modern track riders use the rear brake to back the bike in to the corner

Say what?....... modern bikes now have reverse plz explain?

[laRIKin]

Modern track riders use the rear brake to back the bike in to the corner

So the rear brake does have a use?
But seriously mate, it is also use to settle the rear end by dragging the brake.
And as dangerous has said to be use as a traction control, when thing go a
little a stray.
My I also be as bold to say that you do not need max braking on all corners.
And by useing the front only it upsets the steering geometry more.
And Honda spent alot of money on their linked braking system and more than once it failed costing Aaron Slight a good finish.
But they perservered with it and now it's on street bikes.
So again dual braking must have it's place, that is using both brakes.
I know that I use alot more rear brake in the wet, as I would not like too lock
up the front wheel, but could live with a little rear end lock up.

The main reason I posted, is because so many people were saying that
(in around about way) that the rear brake had no use at all.

I disagree, as I think that it has it's place and would not be with out one.