Please don't enter blind corners too fast!

[Kinje]

I must say that something I find disturbing about Kiwi biker forums,is the way accidents,spills ,bins,whatever you like to call them,are almost boasted about.It is almost as if a crash has become a badge of office!
In my early days of motorcycling,to admit to coming off ,was to admit to being an idiot,something to be ashamed of,not something to skyte about.
It is as if we have developed a "crash culture". Shouldnt we instead be telling how many years we have ridden without a crash,or how many klm we have travelled without incident?

Was reading through another thread and found this which got me thinking. I've got a story which people might be able to learn from if I tell it, though im not proud to have crashed. I had a wee bin not long after I got my bike and kept very quiet about it. I have read on here too a few posts about going into blind corners too fast, and some claim it to be often 250 riders doing it, though just yesterday I was very concerned about the guy I was following on a big cruiser.

Well, I was on my 250 going for a blat after work. Some nice quiet twisty country roads. Got into a good groove and speed started increasing. Around one BLIND corner was a farmers gate. He had stopped in his Hilux ute, waited and checked as far as he could and pulled out. I was blasting round the corner, saw him in my path, braked then tried to swerve around the back of him. I clipped the rear corner of the ute tray and consider myself very lucky. Small amount of damage to the bike- wing mirror, brake lever, handlebar; and a bump on my right hand and knee to me. Kept it upright, but I keep thinking...

What if: he had been towing a trailer?
he had been in his tractor?
I had been going even faster?

I now have a lot more respect for blind corners. If I cant see through it I peel off the speed before the bend, then accelerate once I can see the way is clear. I like to know I can stop before or manouver around the obstruction I can't see yet. I should have been applying that from the start. I was only learning, and didn't have the skills to deal with the unexpected situation.

PLEASE dont cross the center line or enter blind corners too fast. What if???

[Toaster]

Met a nice bunch of cows on SH16 once - on a blind corner. I missed the lead cow by a couple feet. First real emergency brake I ever did. Thankfully it paid off and I didn't become one with the future burger patty staring at me as I cursed into my helmet. The other point was that i was going the speed limit. Any faster and I would have been stuffed (or the cow would have been stuffed with me).

[XP@]

Whilst we can't avoid every accident, there is quite a lot we can do to minimise the risks.

* As you say setting the right speed before the corner helps.
* You can also pay attention to your line, and delay the apex to give yourself maximum view before you commit to the corner.
* Looking where you are going also helps. Spot your turn in point, once you have ascertained the turn spot is clear, keep it in your peripheral vision and move on to look around the corner.
* Aim to exit close to the midle of the road but be prepared to change your line mid corner.

Also visit the survival skills forum there is a lot if discussion on the subject there.

[MSTRS:Me]

We are supposed to be able to stop in half the clear distance ahead. How many of us can do this? Too fast is always relative. And difficult to quantify due to there being so many factors involved. 'twould only be truly safe to never ride a bike. (Tui moment).
I do know what you meant tho (and so does Yungatart)

[Squeak the Rat]

Next time you're out, try doing an emergency stop in the middle of a fast blind corner and stop in the visible road ahead.

Actually, please don't unless you're really competent at braking while cornering.

[XP@]

Next time you're out, try doing an emergency stop in the middle of a fast blind corner and stop in the visible road ahead.

Actually, please don't unless you're really competent at braking while cornering.

Any ideas on how to get really competent at braking while cornering?
It ain't that easy! and it is even harder when trying to work out what the hell is going on in front of you, be it a tractor, possum, gravel patch, flying biker who has recently been disconnected from bike...

[beyond]

Next time you're out, try doing an emergency stop in the middle of a fast blind corner and stop in the visible road ahead.

Actually, please don't unless you're really competent at braking while cornering.

Pleased you quantified that

Braking mid corner has many nasty side effects to the inexperienced and it's easy to wash out

[Gremlin]

We are supposed to be able to stop in half the clear distance ahead.

Thats for roads with a single lane, ie, you and oncoming each need half. For a road with at least one lane each way, the law is to be able to stop in the clear distance ahead.

Practising braking is not the only thing... as some have said, braking in a corner can lead to nasty effects. Avoidance and countermeasures can be just as an important aid.

[Squeak the Rat]

Any ideas on how to get really competent at braking while cornering?.

No ideas sorry, I'm incompetent! But that was half my point, it aint easy and we never practice it, or if we do practice it we run the risk of hurting ourselves. Catch 22 anyone?

If you are unlucky enough to encounter something in your path then your chances of a lucky escape decrease rapidly the faster you're going.

Beyond posted a good thread about this a while backhttp://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=37547.

I'd be a mild hypocrite to tell people to ride slow. But at the very least understand the risk.

[RantyDave]

Any ideas on how to get really competent at braking while cornering?

Now that is a very good question. It's clearly the point at which we, bikers, are most vulnerable and yet basically no-one has the first idea how to bail out from a fast corner. Except, perhaps, for physically bailing out ... which I have seen espoused as a viable option more than once.

How to go about learning it? Clearly 150ms before you need to know it is not the best time to work it out...

Dave

[justsomeguy]

From what I've found in my limited clumsy riding experience is that hard to severe braking in corners can be done. All it takes is a bit of practice.

Braking:

Always think progressive braking and always brake as hard as you can as quickly as you can always overestimating the amount of space you think you need - don't forget to look in the mirrors too.

The front wheel may start to fight you and start wobbling - don't squeeze the lever completely - think of an ABS system in cars - squeeze and let go a bit.

You may even get front wheel judder or the wheel hopping - it happens - just look where you want to go and focus on your exit - DON'T JUST TURN YOUR EYES - TURN YOUR WHOLE HEAD TOWARDS YOUR DESIRED EXIT.

On modern sport bikes the front gives you most of your stopping power. So it's ok to forget about your back brake and concentrate on your front and on looking where you want to go in an emergency.

When practicing start off progressively -

- By now I'm assuming you've done a lot of heavy braking practice going straight in appropriate practice areas and have familiarised yourself with how aggressively your brakes on your bike work. You've also experienced a few back wheel lock ups.


- Start off by feathering the brakes - think of how you'd stroke a girls face with your fingers - use that much force and a similar motion- a gentle pull with your fingers - you should feel your pads taking grip and hear them - but the bike should continue on its path smoothly. ALWAYS TURN YOUR WHOLE HEAD TOWARDS WHERE YOU WANT TO GO AND FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION THERE.

From there on take it one step at a time and practice applying your back brake through corners as well - but be very gentle until you're comfortable with this AND - you've already quite happy with using the front brake through corners.

If you reach a stage where you can at will bounce the front wheel under heavy braking then you're starting to approach a stage close to the limits of your brakes - give yourself a pat on the back.

Blind Corners:
Well there should be none theoretically - as you would have slowed down when you noticed the vanishing point approach you - indicating to you what the corner was doing.

If the vanishing point stays at a constant distance from you until you see the corner exit maintain your speed, if it approaches you slow down - if it starts to draw away pour on the throttle while maintaining a speed where you can stop in the visible distance – how do you know how fast that is you ask?? – Well from all the braking practice you did earlier

Oh before I forget Nappy Yew Hear & Welcome!!! To the mad house.

[Bonez]

One of those hazards one has to accept when on back country roads, along with cow shit, slips, fallen trees, etc. Glad you come out relatively ok Kinje. I would say amount of looking ahead blah blah blah would have helped in this sitiuation by the sound of it. If I was you I'd go out and buy a lotto ticket.

[Moxy]

*edit: oops. Justsomeguy submitted his comment just as I started writing this one. The only thing I would add is: when you're in a lean, the best thing to do is use just the front brake, and avoid the back completely - if you lock the back, you'll probably highside when you come back off of it*

Just practice breaking in sweeping corners, and straightening out the bike at the same time until you get good at it. Even if you just practice slowing down mid-corner, you'll get a feel for it. (take it easy!) I think it's just a matter of getting your muscle memory trained to gauge how hard you can break before highsiding.

Also - you probably want to avoid using the rear break as much as possible when you are in a lean!

For me, I just go around blind corners at a speed where I know that I can stop (or adjust my line) in time if I need to. I'm always worried that somebody is going to cross the center line and clip me - no amount of breaking skill will save anybody from that.

[bell]

but I keep thinking...

What if: he had been towing a trailer?
he had been in his tractor?
I had been going even faster?

PLEASE dont cross the center line or enter blind corners too fast. What if???

Good on you for posting this thread Kinje. I've had a near miss on a bend with a rather long drop to the bottom as a result of taking a corner too fast along with a large amount of inexperience. Ok, it was the 2nd time on that bike...

There's a lot of merit to asking oneself that "What if....?" question on a very regular basis when we ride. Perhaps more so when riding on roads that we've not ridden on before. Ride the road as you find it - not how you remember it last, how you'd like to be riding it....and so on. (Was that on www.rideforever.co.nz ?)


Hmmm, weather looks good for tomorrow. Must be due some emergency braking practice.

[RantyDave]

From what I've found in my limited clumsy riding experience is that hard to severe braking in corners can be done. All it takes is a bit of practice.

Nice post - greenie applied.

Perhaps we should try to do some braking practice on TCWNR.....

Dave