Now lifestylers on our best roads

[Beemer]

The difference is that the former is a random event, what is being discussed here is an ongoing problem.

If it is an ongoing problem then he should have been well aware that there would be gravel on that corner and ride accordingly.

It's a bit of a joke to complain about people buying properties on "our best roads" - sorry, since when did YOU take over ownership of the whole country? Considering the price they paid for the privilege of owning land in what is obviously a rural area, they have more right to be there than you do - after all, they're paying rates, you're not.

[WRT]

I quite agree with the line of thought that there shouldnt have been gravel on the road in the first place, and that it should be up to the owner of the property to make sure that this doesnt happen. I like Winja's idea of no gravel on corners and no driveways on blind corners.

However, I also agree with Beemer, that the rider should take a level of responsiblity in this instance. One of the major rules of riding (or driving) on public roads (and they are that - PUBLIC roads, not YOUR track) is to always make sure that you can stop in the distance that you can see up the road. Most of us (if not all at some time or another) are guilty of breaking this rule, myself included.

If I was to come off my bike because of a condition on the road that I hadn't left myself enough of a chance to avoid, I would have to damn well man up and accept that the majority of the blame for the accident rested with myself. Regardless of why that condition was there in the first place. You have to keep that safety zone around you at all times - and if you dont and you have an accident as a result of it, then sorry, but then its "hard luck, Abu!"

In this particular case, then I would definately be pertitioning the owner of said property to sort their act out to help prevent it from happening to anyone else. But I would also still accept that I had come off because I had allowed things that should have been well within my ability to control, to get outside my control.

My condolances to the rider, and I hope he heals up fast. I also hope that he treats this as a learning experience and that he is able to turn this "lesson" to his advantage.

[ManDownUnder]

If it is an ongoing problem then he should have been well aware that there would be gravel on that corner and ride accordingly.

It's a bit of a joke to complain about people buying properties on "our best roads" - sorry, since when did YOU take over ownership of the whole country? Considering the price they paid for the privilege of owning land in what is obviously a rural area, they have more right to be there than you do - after all, they're paying rates, you're not.

Na - I have to disagree on that one.

It's not a case of one or other being more (or by implication less) entitled, both are entitled to be there - that's a simple fact. If it's an ongoing problem then knowing the local conditions is something reasonable to expect of a local.

What if the person isn't local - how could they ever know of the problem? Does the onus of responsibility shift to the landowner if the driver isn't local?

No - the ongoing nature of the problem clearly lies with the landowner. It's their mess that's causing a hazard to all road users, with motorcyclists being particularly affected.

Let me know if I missed something.
MDU

[Zookey]

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Would it have made any difference if it had been gravel that had been spread on the road by a car going wide on a corner? Sorry if he is hurt and the bike is damaged but if he hit loose shingle on the inside of a "tight, fast bend" then perhaps he was going too fast for the conditions.

If it's your "favoured track" then you both obviously ride it regularly. Did the house, alpacas, steep shingle driveway, etc. appear suddenly overnight? No, I bet you have been aware of them for bloody months. So stop whinging and get used to something called urban sprawl.

Country roads ALL have their hazards and shingle spread from driveways is just one of them. Ride to the conditions and you won't have a problem.

You must be really pissed off that someone sold off part of your private race track to a damned lifestyler. Did you ever stop to think that perhaps he's pissed off with you guys using it as a race track and deliberately lets his shingle spread onto that corner?

In a reply to Beemer,the road in Question is a typical country road and joins to mine where we farm and yes ive hit loose gravel in my car and having spent half my life driving on such including our boys,but the advent of forestry and the subsequent selling off of the small blocks with houses has led to a new culture of people who dont seem to give a toss about anyone but themselves,If you drive in the country try looking at the etablished farm homes,and you will find cattle stops across there driveways,not to stop cattle but grated to stop there drives ending in the middle of the road,you lift the grate and clean out the shingle.And other writers are correct when they say that all new entrences have to be hard surfaced ,but ho not the existing ones like the entrance in question.and as for using the road as a race track ,try riding our long drive in some time,and as for the bike ,a pushed in blinker as damage does not sudjest speed.

[Beemer]

I live in the country and as such ride accordingly in those areas. And for the record, no, our driveway is not gravel, it's concreted all the way down and sealed by the roadside!

You obviously live near this guy, so why not drop in and mention your concerns to him? He may be totally unaware that his actions are causing any problems - if he drives a 4WD then he probably doesn't even notice the shingle being spread across the road as he'd be driving slowly to turn into or out of his driveway. Or have a word to the council or Transit or whoever is responsible for the road - point out the danger to motorists and they may be able to force the owner to do something about it.

Everyone blames the lifestylers, but they forget that it is the farmers who are selling off their land. Not that you guys are, but I find it a bit rich for country people to chuck off at what they call Queen Street farmers when they're the ones offering them the chance to move into their backyard!

[Finn]

I'd send them a letter demanding compensation... they might not pay up, but at least they'll do something about the shit on the road.

I think WINJA'S letter would be more effective.

The owners would have no idea of the danger that their driveway causes to riders. As WINJA pointed out it's a council issue. They should not allow driveways on bends, especially unsealed.

And I don't think the type of car these people drive has anything to do with it. Why in NZ, do some people get so pissed off at the type of cars other people drive or how much money they make? Little jealous huh? This tall poppy attitude sucks.

[Keeper]

This shit makes you angry

[Lou Girardin]

If it is an ongoing problem then he should have been well aware that there would be gravel on that corner and ride accordingly.

It's a bit of a joke to complain about people buying properties on "our best roads" - sorry, since when did YOU take over ownership of the whole country? Considering the price they paid for the privilege of owning land in what is obviously a rural area, they have more right to be there than you do - after all, they're paying rates, you're not.

So, if the lifestyler dropped diesel across the road on a regular basis, that would be OK too?

[ManDownUnder]

So, if the lifestyler dropped diesel across the road on a regular basis, that would be OK too?

Clearly - we'd all have to drive and ride to the conditions!

C'mon now Lou be reasonable

(Hey Lou - where do I wipe this sarcasm off - it's dripping everywhere...)

Everyone blames the lifestylers, but they forget that it is the farmers who are selling off their land. Not that you guys are, but I find it a bit rich for country people to chuck off at what they call Queen Street farmers when they're the ones offering them the chance to move into their backyard!

I'm not blaming them for being there. As I said - they're fully entitled to. When they make a nuisance of themselves - then blame them for that by all means.

[Finn]

I live in the country and as such ride accordingly in those areas. And for the record, no, our driveway is not gravel, it's concreted all the way down and sealed by the roadside!

You obviously live near this guy, so why not drop in and mention your concerns to him? He may be totally unaware that his actions are causing any problems - if he drives a 4WD then he probably doesn't even notice the shingle being spread across the road as he'd be driving slowly to turn into or out of his driveway. Or have a word to the council or Transit or whoever is responsible for the road - point out the danger to motorists and they may be able to force the owner to do something about it.

Everyone blames the lifestylers, but they forget that it is the farmers who are selling off their land. Not that you guys are, but I find it a bit rich for country people to chuck off at what they call Queen Street farmers when they're the ones offering them the chance to move into their backyard!

Well said Beemer. NZ has what I would call third world roads thanks to incompetant governments (this current one the worst). Driving to work this morning across Auck city, my ass almost fell through the floor of the car. Pot holes you could have a hungi in.

So while the transit and the coucils and whoever else is stuffing up our roads does nothing, we must all take precaution on our unpredictable roads.

Hope the rider makes a full recovery.

[MisterD]

There is actually a law covering the dropping of offensive matter on a road, but I doubt it includes gravel.

What's the situation with mud / shit etc left all over the road by tractors and cattle etc? Surely that's exactly the same situation except it's been around for ever and can't be blamed on "lifestylers".

[Lou Girardin]

What's the situation with mud / shit etc left all over the road by tractors and cattle etc? Surely that's exactly the same situation except it's been around for ever and can't be blamed on "lifestylers".

I have a feeling cow shit is exempt (strong farming lobby), but developers are obliged to keeps roads as clear as poss. Ever seen it happen?

[ManDownUnder]

I have a feeling cow shit is exempt (strong farming lobby), but developers are obliged to keeps roads as clear as poss. Ever seen it happen?

Cow shit on the roads has contributed to the increase in underpasses being build. It keeps cows off the road (they hurt when you hit 'em) and their shit off the road - it's quite corrosive and meant roads needed to be more regularly maintained.

And yeah - hold the cockies responsible for that too. No problems with me.

[MisterD]

I have a feeling cow shit is exempt (strong farming lobby), but developers are obliged to keeps roads as clear as poss. Ever seen it happen?

I have no NZ based experience, but I do remember scraping mud off the road that our tractors had left when I worked on a farm back in my uni holidays at home...

[HenryDorsetCase]

I'd send them a letter demanding compensation... they might not pay up, but at least they'll do something about the shit on the road.

Id actually be complaining to the plod as well: then if they dont do anything ("Its a civil matter") then off to the Disputes Tribunal to recover your insurance XS or if no claim, the costs.

the reasoning goes:

their drive and driving deposits a hazard on the road

they didnt clean it up or take steps to mitigate the hazard.

its reasonably foreseeable that damage might occur

damage did in fact occur

its their fault QED