Am I a POM?

[dawnrazor]

lol. Thats irish logic for you. The Irish speaking better english than the english.

Not logic mate, fact. Our education system is one of the leading systems in the world, the literacy rate is one of highest in the world and we have produced more world class writers, poets and scholars per head of capita in the world. In case I'm setting myself up for a target here I don't count myself as special in this regard.

fact is fact, but thanks for the racial slur. LOL

[Freebird]

So Dawnrazor where do you hail from?
The best English being found in Ireland is not that well known a fact.
Regards
Davey

[dawnrazor]

So Dawnrazor where do you hail from?
The best English being found in Ireland is not that well known a fact.
Regards
Davey

Well we all know about it, and theres a lot of us in one form or another - talk about a quiet reveloution, damn I've said too much already. One word "Ulysses".

[MisterD]

Yep, often mused that being made up of conquerers and those who managed to survived conquest (and ruled by a monarchy based on the murdering of an incumbent monarch) explains a lot about the famed English expansionist ideal...

Myself, I've always thought that it explained a lot about why English football supporters (I'm a rugby head) couldn't have a couple of beers without trying to smash the town up....that and the fact that the history syllabus is a list of battles where we beat everyone!

[Grahameeboy]

No, we have at least 2 - you furriners just aren't capable of picking the difference. Them bloody Southlanders speak funny. When they venture up into civilisation, they have a Southland accent compared with our cultured tones.

I'll huff and I'll puff.....That is cause there aint no difference......I mean ewes have trubs thinking that Scots etc are not Poms cause they have an accent when almost every English County has it's own accent.........aha

[Wolf]

I'll huff and I'll puff.....That is cause there aint no difference......I mean ewes have trubs thinking that Scots etc are not Poms cause they have an accent when almost every English County has it's own accent.........aha

Deth da, Grahameeboy.

Scots, Irish, Welsh, Manx and Cornish all have their own, non-english, languages - they still have the original Celtic languages. The Britons who spoke a Celtic tongue were dispossessed (fleeing to what is now Wales, Cornwall and Brittany and mingling with the tribes that were already there) or assimilated and adopted the emerging Anglo-Saxon language.

The Welsh, Irish, Scots, Manx and Cornish kept their languages despite attempts by the English to wipe those languages out (very nearly succeeded with Cornish but it does still exist).

Ergo, those people are not poms but Celts. Poms are English - a mixture of (very diluted) Celtic, Saxon, Angle, Jute and Norman - irrespective of the accent (or "uccent", MisterD )

You can thank the various invaders and a bit of convenient geography for the distinction - Hadrian built his wall to delineate the land, the Saxons built "the pale" to distinguish between their territory and the Celtic tribes they called "Wealu" or foreigners, Cornwall was remote with some pretty nasty boglands between it and the rest of the island and the Isle of Man and Ireland are separated from the rest by water.

Because the invaders decided not to press on or deemed the places worthless, the tribes and their languages flourished outside of the various kingdoms that became known collectively as "England".

BTW, MisterD, I didn't forget the Danes - the Jutes I mentioned were from Denmark.

I did, however, miss out the Isle of Man from previous posts.

'tis not coming from the Ununited Kingdom that makes someone a pom, but coming from England.

My personal definition, anyway - many kiwis might be able to spot a Scots or Irish accent but can't tell the difference between "English" accents and Welsh, Cornish and Isle of Man accents - they'd probably lump them all together as "poms". I've had to correct a fair few ignorant people who think Cornwall is "part of England".

[Grahameeboy]

Deth da, Grahameeboy.

Scots, Irish, Welsh, Manx and Cornish all have their own, non-english, languages - they still have the original Celtic languages. The Britons who spoke a Celtic tongue were dispossessed (fleeing to what is now Wales, Cornwall and Brittany and mingling with the tribes that were already there) or assimilated and adopted the emerging Anglo-Saxon language.

The Welsh, Irish, Scots, Manx and Cornish kept their languages despite attempts by the English to wipe those languages out (very nearly succeeded with Cornish but it does still exist).

Ergo, those people are not poms but Celts. Poms are English - a mixture of (very diluted) Celtic, Saxon, Angle, Jute and Norman - irrespective of the accent (or "uccent", MisterD )

You can thank the various invaders and a bit of convenient geography for the distinction - Hadrian built his wall to delineate the land, the Saxons built "the pale" to distinguish between their territory and the Celtic tribes they called "Wealu" or foreigners, Cornwall was remote with some pretty nasty boglands between it and the rest of the island and the Isle of Man and Ireland are separated from the rest by water.

Because the invaders decided not to press on or deemed the places worthless, the tribes and their languages flourished outside of the various kingdoms that became known collectively as "England".

BTW, MisterD, I didn't forget the Danes - the Jutes I mentioned were from Denmark.

I did, however, miss out the Isle of Man from previous posts.

'tis not coming from the Ununited Kingdom that makes someone a pom, but coming from England.

My personal definition, anyway - many kiwis might be able to spot a Scots or Irish accent but can't tell the difference between "English" accents and Welsh, Cornish and Isle of Man accents - they'd probably lump them all together as "poms". I've had to correct a fair few ignorant people who think Cornwall is "part of England".

Took your time Mr Wolf.....been to the library......I agree.......

I am still me though.....for better or worse I hear ewe say

[Wolf]

Took your time Mr Wolf.....been to the library......I agree.......

I am still me though.....for better or worse I hear ewe say

Yeah. When all is said and done, it matters not a jot or tittle what labels others place on you.

I only use terms like "pom" or "paddy" in fun and have the distinction set for purposes of counter argument for those who call people "bloody whinging poms" - "actually, he's Welsh, not a pom" or "the term you were looking for is 'bloody whinging Welsh git'."

I also have a lot of fun ragging the English about being bloody Saxons or Normans - barbarian invaders and river pirates - but it's all in good fun.

I'm a mix of Cornish, Irish, Welsh and Scots on mum's side of the family and Scots and Saxon on dad's side and there's bound to be Angle, Jute and Norman River Pirate in the mix somewhere, so I figure I can take the piss out of as many Ununited Kingdom races as I like with perfect impunity as I'm scoring "own goals".

[Grahameeboy]

Yeah. When all is said and done, it matters not a jot or tittle what labels others place on you.

I only use terms like "pom" or "paddy" in fun and have the distinction set for purposes of counter argument for those who call people "bloody whinging poms" - "actually, he's Welsh, not a pom" or "the term you were looking for is 'bloody whinging Welsh git'."

I also have a lot of fun ragging the English about being bloody Saxons or Normans - barbarian invaders and river pirates - but it's all in good fun.

I'm a mix of Cornish, Irish, Welsh and Scots on mum's side of the family and Scots and Saxon on dad's side and there's bound to be Angle, Jute and Norman River Pirate in the mix somewhere, so I figure I can take the piss out of as many Ununited Kingdom races as I like with perfect impunity as I'm scoring "own goals".

That is what King John thought too........I am a mix of English, Irish and Welsh.......I still agree with you

[TwoSeven]

Deth da, Grahameeboy.

Scots, Irish, Welsh, Manx and Cornish all have their own, non-english, languages - they still have the original Celtic languages. The Britons who spoke a Celtic tongue were dispossessed (fleeing to what is now Wales, Cornwall and Brittany and mingling with the tribes that were already there) or assimilated and adopted the emerging Anglo-Saxon language.

The Welsh, Irish, Scots, Manx and Cornish kept their languages despite attempts by the English to wipe those languages out (very nearly succeeded with Cornish but it does still exist).

Really ?

I thought they spoke a common language up until the angels arrived

What about the Caldonii (picts), Taexali, Carvetii. Venicones, Epidii, Novantii, Selgovae, Votadini, Brigantes, Parisi, Cornovi, Decangli, Ordovoices, Corieltauvi, Icini, Dematae, Catuvellauni, Silures, Dubunni, Dumnonii, Durotriges, Belgae, Atrebates, Regni, Cantaci and Trinovanties.

I'm sure many of those tribes may have not even known there were people called the welsh and scots in existence. They certainly all found out about the Angels and the Saxons and the Jutes and the Frisians

The anglens and the saxons (anglo-saxons) didnt come over from germany until after the romans left in 410AD. And it was then that wales (part of mercia), cornwall and scotland (partly northumbria) were starting to be created (the rest was called angleland). Up until then they were part of Britania Prima and Britania Superia.

Personally sometimes I think the angli (english) should learn to speak celtish rather than trying to make the celts speak english. It would be a lot easier

[riffer]

Ergo, those people are not poms but Celts.

Some common sense at last.

Having the bastard English trying to subjugate your population at the point of the sword or gun does not, and will not, ever make you a POM.

[dawnrazor]

don't forget the vikings with all their raping and pilage, they must have polluted the gene pool somewhat and had a significant infulance on the culture.

[Wolf]

Really ?

I thought they spoke a common language up until the angels arrived

They actually spoke variants of two main language groups - "Brythonic" and "Goidelic" (also referred to as "P-Celtic" and "Q-Celtic" respectively by linguists.) Scots Gaelic, Irish, and Manx being Goidelic languages, Cornish, Welsh, Breton (Brittany), and the languages of most of the ancient "Britons" being Brythonic languages.

Linguistic evidence suggests that the languages were one many many years prior and definitely related to the languages spoken by continental Celts from Hungary to Gaul.

What about the Caldonii (picts), Taexali, Carvetii. Venicones, Epidii, Novantii, Selgovae, Votadini, Brigantes, Parisi, Cornovi, Decangli, Ordovoices, Corieltauvi, Icini, Dematae, Catuvellauni, Silures, Dubunni, Dumnonii, Durotriges, Belgae, Atrebates, Regni, Cantaci and Trinovanties.

Many different tribes, some of whom spoke a version of Brythonic, others spoke a variant of Goidelic.

I'm sure many of those tribes may have not even known there were people called the welsh and scots in existence. They certainly all found out about the Angels and the Saxons and the Jutes and the Frisians

Actually, they found out about the Romans first and tribal structure in some areas had been supplanted by Imperialism - leading to a strong Nationalist contingent after the Romans pulled out - countered by those who wanted to revert to pre-Roman tribalism. It was into that mess that the Saxons, Angles and Jutes came.

As to the Scots - the word "Scotti" means raider and they were raiders from Ireland (Goidelic speaking) who invaded the "Pictish" people (Caledonii, "Picti" being a Roman term meaning "painted people") they weren't a tribe as such until they had taken control of the area and the place started being known as "Scotland"

Welsh were a variety of tribes - some incumbent and some from the middle of the island fleeing the Saxons - named "Wealu" ("foreigner") by the Saxons, whence comes the name Welsh. Thier own collective name is "Cymru"

Kernow, former home of the Dumnonii tribe, became known as Cornwall.

As to knowledge of other tribes: trade was well known - they weren't always warring. Fashions in Europe migrated to the Isles (once thought by historians to be proof of invasion, the "La Tene" style artifacts in the isles were found to have been locally manufactured and had regional differences suggesting the flow of "fashion" along trade routes rather than the importation of foriegn artifacts by invaders)

They did not know about the "Welsh" or the "Scots" for those names did not exist, but they certainly knew of and traded with or warred with other tribes in those areas.

[Wolf]

don't forget the vikings with all their raping and pilage, they must have polluted the gene pool somewhat and had a significant infulance on the culture.

And trading - their interactions weren't always aggressive. Red hair for the Irish and Scots and the "Celtic" knotwork patterns and zoomorphic forms with intertwined limbs are "Viking" in origin with a "local" spin.

[Wolf]

Personally sometimes I think the angli (english) should learn to speak celtish rather than trying to make the celts speak english. It would be a lot easier

At least Welsh, Cornish and both Irish and Scots Gaelic are phonetically spelled (once you learn their alphabets and rules of spelling) - hear it, you can spell it; read it, you know how to say it.

And it'd probably have been less painful for both the English and the Celts...