5km/hr speed tolerance

[Lou Girardin]

They are required to remove the school signs when not actually on a school run.

[VFR400R]

I like this rule,but I wonder why we don't have the 30k rule like in Sydney,from memory between the hours of 8-10 and 2-4 schooldays, marked with signs.

In Melbourne its 40km/h (given that most schools are on the normal road speed of 60km/h) same rule on time applies (I think it might be 8-9 and 3-4, but that depends if secondary school or not). In Queensland the speed is 20km/h around a school during open and close of school (well it used to be last time I was there 3 years ago)

[Grahameeboy]

They are required to remove the school signs when not actually on a school run.

Picky......................

[HenryDorsetCase]

thanks for that. I go past four schools on my way to work... one of each... pre school, primary intermediate and secondary.

the issue isnt the kids so much as the brain dead fuckwits in their breeder boxes (SUV's and Previas.....) who, having dispensed with "the most precious cargo in the world" then blindly pull out of and into traffic, or park in bus stops or double park (Ive seem them double parked on BOTH sides of a narrow road, no shit completely blocking the road) without a thought for anyone. Its the most dangerous thing I do in my life I reckon.

[slopster]

Yeah I'm all for slowing traffic around schools and all that but this is not the way to do it. Something like increasing the fines or demerits (around schools) would work but cutting the tolerance to 5kmh means that people will spend so much time watching the speedo that the wont see the kid run out in front of them. Keeping within 5 kmh of the limit without constantly looking t the speedo is near impossible.

[dawnrazor]

When I read this thread initially I thought fair enough, I might not like kids but it seems an awful shame to bump them off and the parents seem to get upset, so anything that stops this happening has got to be a good thing.

HOWEVER, on my way home I began to think about it a bit more laterially and two things occoured to me.

1. In general if its an unwritten rule that the police will turn a blind eye to speeding infringements of up to 10k's over the posted speed limit, what does this say about the polices opinion of the law. To me it says the speed limits are rubbish and unrealistic, and as an enforcer of the law I will bend it to suit my own interpertation of the law. I mean I don't necessarily agree with a lot of speed limits, but in general the ones around town are there for good reason. If I'm in a 30k zone I stick to 30k, thats the law, but here the cops are saying, don't bother about too much your fine up to 40k, just don't let the boss see ya!
Surely the law is the law, its like saying leaning through an open window and stealing a TV isn't burgulary because you never entered the house completely.

2. As I mentioned I'm all for the reduction of road deaths especially the little ones, so keeping to 5k addition to the speed limit around schools is smart, but what about hospitals and nursing homes and churches and concert venues and well anywhere else, its ok to speed 10k over. That sort of suggests that the lives of children are worth more then everyone else, so who gave the cops the right to determine that.

I know I'm taking an extreme view of this but all the same, wouldn't it be easier if they just made more speed zone increments, 35k here 40k there etc, and then stated clearly that 1k over the limit is breaking the law. no ambiguity no problem. while they are at it pop the motorway limits up to 110k like most countries.

[spudchucka]

If parents got their little darlings to walk to school, there would be:
a: less traffic congestion around schools,
b: healthier kids,
c: daries [sp] getting a bigger turnover because of more kids walking past + hungrier kids???

d: more perverts hanging around schools because there are more opportunities for them.

[spudchucka]

yet another excuse for revenue collection to try and fix a fundamental issue with kiwi drivers, suppose it makes for even more good police public relations.

Up to 10kph over the speed limit = $30.00 fine.

Minus $70.00 - $80.00 administration costs for each ticket (more if it is defended) = not a lot of $$$$ extra for the Govt.

[spudchucka]

I have a slight variation on this question. On one of my commuting routes during school time there is regularly a bus parked outside the entire day, empty and no kids around etc. Do you have to slow for that as there is clearly no difference between that and a normal bus apart from the fact that it is displaying 'school' signs?

As far as I'm aware the 20kph rule only applies when the are picking up or dropping off.

[spudchucka]

When I read this thread initially I thought fair enough, I might not like kids but it seems an awful shame to bump them off and the parents seem to get upset, so anything that stops this happening has got to be a good thing.

HOWEVER, on my way home I began to think about it a bit more laterially and two things occoured to me.

1. In general if its an unwritten rule that the police will turn a blind eye to speeding infringements of up to 10k's over the posted speed limit, what does this say about the polices opinion of the law. To me it says the speed limits are rubbish and unrealistic, and as an enforcer of the law I will bend it to suit my own interpertation of the law. I mean I don't necessarily agree with a lot of speed limits, but in general the ones around town are there for good reason. If I'm in a 30k zone I stick to 30k, thats the law, but here the cops are saying, don't bother about too much your fine up to 40k, just don't let the boss see ya!
Surely the law is the law, its like saying leaning through an open window and stealing a TV isn't burgulary because you never entered the house completely.

2. As I mentioned I'm all for the reduction of road deaths especially the little ones, so keeping to 5k addition to the speed limit around schools is smart, but what about hospitals and nursing homes and churches and concert venues and well anywhere else, its ok to speed 10k over. That sort of suggests that the lives of children are worth more then everyone else, so who gave the cops the right to determine that.

I know I'm taking an extreme view of this but all the same, wouldn't it be easier if they just made more speed zone increments, 35k here 40k there etc, and then stated clearly that 1k over the limit is breaking the law. no ambiguity no problem. while they are at it pop the motorway limits up to 110k like most countries.

1: The 10kph tolerance is only there in the interests of reasonableness and fairness in enforcement. Tyres wear, speedometers lose accuracy with age etc etc, which means that 50 kph on your speedo could actually be 59 on the road and you the driver would be none the wiser. Also speed has a way of creeping up on you when you are rolling downhill. These are the reasons why there is a tolerance, however, you may still find yourself getting a ticket for less than 10kph over if the circumstances warrant it.

2: All the places you mention deserve equal enforcement of speed limits but as the original poster said this is apparently a campaign to start when school returns for the year. It in no way suggests that one section of society is favoured above another.

BTW, leaning through an open window and stealing a TV is still burglary.

[Lou Girardin]

d: more perverts hanging around schools because there are more opportunities for them.

C'mon Spud. That's what you guys are for. Look at it as an ongoing sting operation.

[dawnrazor]

1: The 10kph tolerance is only there in the interests of reasonableness and fairness in enforcement. Tyres wear, speedometers lose accuracy with age etc etc, which means that 50 kph on your speedo could actually be 59 on the road and you the driver would be none the wiser. Also speed has a way of creeping up on you when you are rolling downhill. These are the reasons why there is a tolerance, however, you may still find yourself getting a ticket for less than 10kph over if the circumstances warrant it.

2: All the places you mention deserve equal enforcement of speed limits but as the original poster said this is apparently a campaign to start when school returns for the year. It in no way suggests that one section of society is favoured above another.

BTW, leaning through an open window and stealing a TV is still burglary.

As I said I took and extreme view of this and I agree with the speedo thing, but I think its actually the case that most speedos are about 10% off the actual speed, so 50k indicated is more likely to be 45k.
And I know speed creeps up on you in a car especially, but on a bike I can tell pretty acurately what speed I'm doing around town (albeit the indicated speed) from wind noise, engine noise and other external indications. In fact to keep myself amused sometimes play the guessing game and most times I'm 1 or 2 k off my prediction, I'm no good at it over 60k though, but it serves my ends around the city.

Well if one section of society isn't favoured over another, why aren't all speed limits subjected to the same rules? We have all seen the ads on TV telling us how 5k's difference in speed makes a huge difference in stopping difference, so presumably it also makes a huge difference in the chances of hitting a pedestrian and them surviving or not. I'm not being pedantic here, but I'm getting mixed messages.

Surely you would be better off denying the existance of a limitied speed infringement amnesty, then having everyone going about doing 40k in a 30 etc. Regardless of the sentament, most people see speed limits as targets, and will drive around at the zenith of the limit whenever possible, if I was going to be hit by a car in a 30k zone I know I'd prefer it to be doing 30k's not 40k.

I don't know it all seems alittle inconsistent, no offence.

[sAsLEX]

so 50k indicated is more likely to be 45k.

well my indicated 40 is above the threashold for the Speed Indication trailers they have that shows you speed (in a 50 zone) , guessing its around 60 odd

[spudchucka]

As I said I took and extreme view of this and I agree with the speedo thing, but I think its actually the case that most speedos are about 10% off the actual speed, so 50k indicated is more likely to be 45k.
And I know speed creeps up on you in a car especially, but on a bike I can tell pretty acurately what speed I'm doing around town (albeit the indicated speed) from wind noise, engine noise and other external indications. In fact to keep myself amused sometimes play the guessing game and most times I'm 1 or 2 k off my prediction, I'm no good at it over 60k though, but it serves my ends around the city.

Well if one section of society isn't favoured over another, why aren't all speed limits subjected to the same rules? We have all seen the ads on TV telling us how 5k's difference in speed makes a huge difference in stopping difference, so presumably it also makes a huge difference in the chances of hitting a pedestrian and them surviving or not. I'm not being pedantic here, but I'm getting mixed messages.

Surely you would be better off denying the existance of a limitied speed infringement amnesty, then having everyone going about doing 40k in a 30 etc. Regardless of the sentament, most people see speed limits as targets, and will drive around at the zenith of the limit whenever possible, if I was going to be hit by a car in a 30k zone I know I'd prefer it to be doing 30k's not 40k.

I don't know it all seems alittle inconsistent, no offence.

No offence taken. Don't take offence yourself but I almost think that you are going out of your way to look for possible inconsistencies. Schools are obviously a high risk environment because of the large number of small people who have very limited road sense. Most people seem think it is a good thing to target schools, so do I, but I'd also be happy for hospitals and old folks homes to receive the same attention. However, this campaign is obviously being timed to coincide with the return to school and to raise awareness at that time. Once the period of the campaign has passed I would hope that most cops would continue policing around schools in the same fashion.

I don't see that as inconsistent or favouring a certain section of society, I simply see it as a common sense approach to road safety.

[dawnrazor]

No offence taken. Don't take offence yourself but I almost think that you are going out of your way to look for possible inconsistencies. Schools are obviously a high risk environment because of the large number of small people who have very limited road sense. Most people seem think it is a good thing to target schools, so do I, but I'd also be happy for hospitals and old folks homes to receive the same attention. However, this campaign is obviously being timed to coincide with the return to school and to raise awareness at that time. Once the period of the campaign has passed I would hope that most cops would continue policing around schools in the same fashion.

I don't see that as inconsistent or favouring a certain section of society, I simply see it as a common sense approach to road safety.

Okay I think what I find inconsistant about this rule is this.

Right according to your unofficial amnesty on speed infringements you might be allowed to do the following speeds in the following zones

30K in a 20K Zone
40K in a 30K Zone
50K in a 40K Zone
60K in a 50K Zone
70K in a 60K Zone
80K in a 70K Zone
90K in a 80K Zone
100K in a 90K Zone
110K in a 100K Zone

Right or wrong?

If this is the case then this means


30K in a 20K Zone is a 50% increase on the indicated limit
40K in a 30K Zone is a 33% increase on the indicated limit
50K in a 40K Zone is a 25% increase on the indicated limit
60K in a 50K Zone is a 20% increase on the indicated limit
70K in a 60K Zone is a 16% increase on the indicated limit
80K in a 70K Zone is a 14% increase on the indicated limit
90K in a 80K Zone is a 12.5% increase on the indicated limit
100K in a 90K Zone is a 11% increase on the indicated limit
110K in a 100K Zone is a 10% increase on the indicated limit

That looks a little inconsistant to me, its okay to brake the speed limit by 50-33% at slower speeds, but don't go over 10% over at the high end.

As I said before I understand the need for this gray area in the law, and that it can't be as black and white as I have belaboured, but tell why you don't just make it a 10% infringement increase for ever limit like ever other sensible country in the world and remove the ambiguity.

I'm playing devils advocate here, but at least that makes a certain degree of logic, and would remove the need for special speed restriction weeks. I'm pretty sure people coul handle the maths.