Another proper England rant...

**Wolf** · 20th January 2006, 15:21

Originally Posted by Ixion

Old English had genders. We lost them sometime around when Middle English became early modern English - maybe C14

Must've been a bugger for you, having to adapt.

Hadn't noticed obvious gender-related words in what I've read of Canterbury Tales so far but then, I have no idea what the pronouns were and how many genders there were so I might just have failed to spot them.

**jazbug5** · 20th January 2006, 15:25

Middle English, apparently.

**Wolf** · 20th January 2006, 15:28

Originally Posted by jazbug5

Is it at all possible that there were varying gender attributions between the different languages, and it was just easier to neuter them? Tell you what, I'll ask my Ma: she knows everything, and besides, she has this wierd fetish for Old English.

Certainly differences between French and Germanic tongues - the French only have two genders and the Germans have three and the same number of things to name. It's only natural that the genders of the words would not match between those two groups, as a lot of objects that the Germans deem "neuter" are either masculine or feminine in French. I'm sure there are objects that the French deem feminine and the Germans deem masculine, and vice versa.

Ach! Typical KB - thread starts off about one thing and quickly devolves to talk about "gender".

**jazbug5** · 20th January 2006, 15:28

Here, a link for the befuddled...

**Wolf** · 20th January 2006, 15:30

Originally Posted by jazbug5

Middle English, apparently.

Yep. For all I know I may have missed seeing gender-agreement in some of the adjectives.

**jazbug5** · 20th January 2006, 15:33

Originally Posted by Wolf

Yep. For all I know I may have missed seeing gender-agreement in some of the adjectives.

Well, it's a caning for you, you wee slacker...!

BTW that link I posted is all about the evolution of English and mentions the gender thing; didn't read it all (it's really long...) but it's just bursting with pedantry goodness.

**Grahameeboy** · 20th January 2006, 15:35

Originally Posted by jazbug5

Here, a link for the befuddled...

I am befuddled, bamboozled without any link.........enough, I am going insane!!!

**Ixion** · 20th January 2006, 15:43

Originally Posted by jazbug5

Well, it's a caning for you, you wee slacker...!

BTW that link I posted is all about the evolution of English and mentions the gender thing; didn't read it all (it's really long...) but it's just bursting with pedantry goodness.

Yep, here it is

Middle English Period - 1066 to 1485

Lexis - terms for law and politics from Norman French · General expansion of lexis, esp. abstract terms · Case-endings, declension and gender disappear · Inflection goes except in pronouns and related forms · Writers concerned about change · want to stabilize language · 1458 - Gutenberg invents printing (1475 - Caxton introduces it to England) · the press enables some standardizing.

Probably impossible to give an exact date, they would have held on for several centuries in the northern and remoter areas, after they were lost in the south and London.

**TwoSeven** · 20th January 2006, 15:47

My understanding is that most of the european written languages came from the old greek. Otherwise we'd all be speaking and writing nebatean or syraic or something bizare like that which doesnt have vowels and diacritics.

**Wolf** · 20th January 2006, 15:51

Originally Posted by jazbug5

Well, it's a caning for you, you wee slacker...!

BTW that link I posted is all about the evolution of English and mentions the gender thing; didn't read it all (it's really long...) but it's just bursting with pedantry goodness.

Well, according to your link the Middle English period, 1066-1485, was when the use of gender was disappearing. It also notes differences in writing styles and word use between Chaucer (closer to Modern English) and the author of Pearl and Gawain and the Green Knight (closer to Old English) even though they were around the same time.

Edit: Argh, Mr Ixion beat me to it.

**Ixion** · 20th January 2006, 15:55

Well, after all that erudition, isn't it time this thread followed the proper KB progression and got round to beer ?

Mine's a Speight's, thanks.

**Wolf** · 20th January 2006, 15:57

Originally Posted by Ixion

Probably impossible to give an exact date, they would have held on for several centuries in the northern and remoter areas, after they were lost in the south and London.

Most likely right, there. Pretty much the same reason that "English" won out over Courtly French after William the Pretentious River Pirate took over. French was the language of the usurper, I mean royal, court but, although it added to the language, the further from court you were, the less French was spoken.