Careful what you wish for.

[MisterD]

I grew up in 70's Ireland, my dad was from Northern Ireland, I clearly remember the news every night reporting that days atrocities, I know people that have been hurt or effected by the years of violence, but I can't hold a grudge and be angry. I believe its over, and hope at least one corner of the world can settle down and find peace.

Unfortunately I don't do forgive and forget. Warrington is my old home town and I just feel sick to see Adams and Co strutting around like they're some kind of international statesmen.

[dawnrazor]

As a philosophical aside...

What if I walked up and smacked you in the nose, then did it again - and again, and again...

Would the conflict already have (single sidedly) started or would it be held off until you decided you didn't want to be hit any more - and retaliated?

According to dictionary.com "conflict" is defined thus:

1. A state of open, often prolonged fighting; a battle or war.
2. A state of disharmony between incompatible or antithetical persons,
ideas, or interests; a clash.
3. Psychology. A psychic struggle, often unconscious, resulting from the
opposition or simultaneous functioning of mutually exclusive impulses,
desires, or tendencies.
4. Opposition between characters or forces in a work of drama or fiction,
especially opposition that motivates or shapes the action of the plot.

The semantics of the word conflict would imply that it entails two parties or more enacting violence upon each other.

Your example is abuse, terror, opression, etc. There is no conflict as there is no opposition to your actions. However once I kick you in the balls -hey we have conflict and a squeakie little voice and the crying and puking, actually thats not conflict, thats game over.

[ManDownUnder]

According to dictionary.com "conflict" is defined thus:

1. A state of open, often prolonged fighting; a battle or war.
2. A state of disharmony between incompatible or antithetical persons,
ideas, or interests; a clash.

The semantics of the word conflict would imply that it entails two parties or more enacting violence upon each other.

Your example is abuse, terror, opression, etc. There is no conflict as there is no opposition to your actions.

I agree with the terror abuse definition entirely, but add that it's simply a precusor to conflict (as is evindent so many times around the world)

I'd say my example falls nicely into your definition #2 then. There is clearly a state of disharmony and the two people involved must have opposing views.

In the case Person 2 doesn't want to fight back - and turns the other cheek
Person 1) "I'm going to hit you again"
Person 2) "I'm going to put up with the suffering and let you hit me"

or where both wants to pound seven pounds of snot out of each other there is a self evident conflict and falls into definition #1 (as you mention in your retailiation scenario)

[dawnrazor]

Unfortunately I don't do forgive and forget. Warrington is my old home town and I just feel sick to see Adams and Co strutting around like they're some kind of international statesmen.

You better get used to it, 'cus if history has taught us anything it says that leaders like this will appeal to the downtrodden masses, the disenfranchised and the poor - offer them the sun moon and stars and next thing you know we have a new government. Hitler did it. The BNP are doing it in the north of England.

Don't be under any illusions that gerry adams would be the first irish leader with "armed struggle" connections either, I can think of several.

You should really try letting it go a little, its a brave new world out there, I'm not a fan of sine fine but we live in democracy after all, the same system that allows tony blair into office allows gerry adams a seat in government, if you can't see that if it wasn't so we would be worse off, then sorry. The other alternative if facism or dictatorships, neither having the best of track records.

[Lias]

Given that America is nothing but a puppet state of Israel, I expect that this will mostly be ignored in Washington. They will denounce Hamas as terrorists, refuse to talk to them, and continue with thie mass murder in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Israel would be a much nicer country if it was a radioactive wasteland.. I think the cockroaches would be better citizens of the world than the Zionists are. God how I wish someone would give Al'Qaeda nukes..

[dawnrazor]

I agree with the terror abuse definition entirely, but add that it's simply a precusor to conflict (as is evindent so many times around the world)

I'd say my example falls nicely into your definition #2 then. There is clearly a state of disharmony and the two people involved must have opposing views.

In the case Person 2 doesn't want to fight back - and turns the other cheek
Person 1) "I'm going to hit you again"
Person 2) "I'm going to put up with the suffering and let you hit me"

or where both wants to pound seven pounds of snot out of each other there is a self evident conflict and falls into definition #1 (as you mention in your retailiation scenario)

Yeah I did consider this - and I guess as much as you can't have a single sided conflict (thats an opinion) you can have a conflict between two people where one doesn't react in kind. So in your example my inaction to your initial action is the confliction. Its at this stage you need to prefix, this will be unopposed conflict, as I am not retaliating in kind but one assumes I am not enjoying the beating and am as so conflicted.

Now what was the question again, I'm conflicted!

[dawnrazor]

Given that America is nothing but a puppet state of Israel....

Did you mean that to be the other way round by any chance, 'cus that don't really make sense as it stands

[Ixion]

No, it makes sense. I understand where he's coming from. Not sure I agree, but it's an arguable position

[MisterD]

You better get used to it, .

Oh I'm used to it alright

Don't be under any illusions that gerry adams would be the first irish leader with "armed struggle" connections either, I can think of several.

I can think of one other, but GA is the one I've grown up listening to (or actors voice the words of)

You should really try letting it go a little,

I agree that I do have to lump it, but there's no way I'm ever going to like it. It saddens me that the moderates on both sides have been replaced by Sinn Fein on the one hand and Rev Ian "Dr No!" Paisley on the other.

[dawnrazor]

Oh I'm used to it alright



I can think of one other, but GA is the one I've grown up listening to (or actors voice the words of)



I agree that I do have to lump it, but there's no way I'm ever going to like it. It saddens me that the moderates on both sides have been replaced by Sinn Fein on the one hand and Rev Ian "Dr No!" Paisley on the other.

Charles J Haughey (sp) Prime minister of republic of Ireland for Fine Fail, for several terms was arrested for gun running in his youth and has long had republican sympities, black days, the man was an evil fish faced cunt.

The only credit I'll give GA, is the fact that he is a very intelligent man.

[MisterD]

Charles J Haughey (sp) Prime minister of republic of Ireland for Fine Fail, for several terms was arrested for gun running in his youth and has long had republican sympities, black days, the man was an evil fish faced cunt.

An interesting debate and I'm learning new stuff as well. Gotta bling you for that, and the poetic turn of phrase. If you hadn't said you were Irish that would give it away for sure!

[Lou Girardin]

Lias is right as I understand the situation. The US needs one strong ally in the Middle East, Israel takes advantage of that fact. In addition, US Jews are a very powerful lobby group, even if they're not dedicated enough to live in Israel. So US pollies are terrified of upsetting them.

[Buster]

Hey guys, from my personal experience in these "territories", these people have a deep hate which runs further than some cultures can imagine. It runs through generations and then some. Violence is not the answer but when your backs against the wall it can seem like the only option.

[dawnrazor]

An interesting debate and I'm learning new stuff as well. Gotta bling you for that, and the poetic turn of phrase. If you hadn't said you were Irish that would give it away for sure!

Check out the photo, gives me the shivers - Irelands economic up turn didn't happen until this bastard was truly out of the picture, he makes muldoon look like a angel.

Sad and sorry days

[Skyryder]

I guess positive thinking is to be encouraged, but these dudes have been at each other's throats for thousands of years. That makes "peace" a bit of a radical concept for them.

The current problems stemm from the first world war in which Churchil was the archetect. Posted breif details on that here somewhere. Problem with these guys is that as they grow up they want a rest so start doing deals but the younger generation "bring it all on' again. If Hamas can not keep it's youth in check the same probles will resurface. If this happens they hve only themselves to blame via the Infada Think how it's spelt. They sent their own kids out onto the street. Going to have one hell of a problem to stop that if their youth don't like what they are doing.

Skyryder