So who's got their knee down?

[White trash]

Yup. Wherever.

[Grumpy]

No, but not through lack of trying. I ride with my toes on the peg and scraped the shit out of the outside of my boot but never touched the knee.

I 'spose you could say that I have more of a Mike Hailwood style of riding. I did a couple of 'Puke track days on my old TL. I had fitted a lower fairing to it which I managed to scrape on both sides......but still didn't get the knee down

Not much chance on the 1400 though. Huge piece of Japenese alloy hanging out the sides although the pegs get a good grinding from time to time.

[Coldkiwi]

i agree on the sliders.. if nothing else, they give you confidence to try it and not be so afraid of pulping your knee cap. The sound/feel just takes a little bit of getting used to!

no, it IS possible to get something cheap from motomail. I bought my existing sliders for $15 in one of the runout sales last year. Sure, they're soft as butter (good for the initial ego but annoying once you get stuck in) and thin as paper (ok 20mm but very annoying once you start wearing away at the velcro base and can't lift them any higher to protect your leather).... but they're a cheap way to start.
Sadly mine are wearing down at the very tops and they're not sitting very well in the place they need to be so I may have to start hunting round for some thicker hero versions

[SPman]

... but my bike will lean a real long way before the pegs touch. I've never touched the pegs down (possibly because the spurs at the end of my pegs are broken off).

Dont you believe it. Ground off the end of my LH peg at a Taupo trackday.
Bloody thing just wouldnt lean any further on the hairpin - got quite boring after awhile!. Didnt get knee down - not wearing Cordura trou anyway!

[Kwaka-Kid]

Bah you dont need knee sliders! touch your jeans or leather down. And my thought has always been you touch knee before peg? is this not true? i mean i know it can be different for everyone but the way it works on my racebike is i hang off... knee touches.. lift it and gentally slide and push lower till pegs touch and thats my limit, and i have now hacksawed 1/4 of my pegs off and she continues to go lower and touch them *just* so the only kool thing i find is proving myself wron each time i go out on the track and seeing how the tyres go even further, but i have to be honest and say im not sure theres much further mine go because they start to slide/fall which makes me think maybe im starting to roll off the edge?.

[Big Dog]

Bah you dont need knee sliders! touch your jeans or leather down.

Yes but I have never done it intentionally
My knees get in the way on round abouts and hairpins.

Must remember not to hang my leg down until I buy more leather. The last time was in Deane apparel dress pants on the Te Atatu round-a-bout when late for work. The only evidence when I got to work was a white scuff on my pants that just brushed off. It doesnt hurt unless there is a chunk sticking up. Then you tend to get home to find either a graze or a cut without a rip in the pants.

Note to self, Keep your knee up by the tank!

[Posh Tourer :P]

Nope, im Still a Virgin biker
in the would like to learn coloumn.

anyway i just wanted to post to agree with the counter-steering bit, reading what ive read and knowing what i know - and thats not very much and all - but i do know that it doesnt make sense to say "i dont use knee down, i use counter-steering" and no offence but even when dragging your knee around you are still counter-steering, you are always counter-steering, thass the way the front wheel works isnt it(gyroscopic precession or something yah?)? even if you think that you are just trying to lean, your mind is being all trixie on you! but its like when your thinking about it you can do it and notice it.
anyways why are we talking about getting knees down when we could all be playing a nice game of roshambo with our neighbors. - -

I'd agree re countersteering from personal experience. Going from the CB125T (piss easy to flick around) straight to the BM (big heavy lump), I've really had to concentrate... To flick the BM around you really need to give it a huge hit of countersteer, and I found, firstly, that I had to make myself do it (wasnt used to using that much), and secondly, as I was holding on hard to the throttle cos it has heavy return springs, it was harder to do it when turning left. Having ridden the bike for a month now though it's all subconcious again..... But the only way to throw that bike around is huge gobs of countersteer....
Thus countersteering makes you steer/lay the bike over. Countersteering in the middle of a corner would probably make you crash. The question of on the seat or off the seat is a question of physics. Sliding your knee is only a consequence of trying to get lower CG while hanging off.

Knee down is not necessarily pushing it, its when you are scraping bits of your bike as well that you have run out of room (assuming you have the tyres to do that... I've had a two wheel slide on the CB without scraping anything)

[Coldkiwi]

is it just me or do other people find it harder to get their knee touched down on slower corners than faster corners?? the though of getting that low through a round about freaks me.. I'd much rather do it at 90kmhr+!

as to the question of decking stuff out is that it really depends on your bike/suspension set up. a cruiser will deck out at 45 degrees whereas my GSXR needs to be damn near 75' before it would start scraping so theres not too much point in worrying about whether your pegs are scraping or not

[pete376403]

I'd agree re countersteering from personal experience. Going from the CB125T (piss easy to flick around) straight to the BM (big heavy lump), I've really had to concentrate... To flick the BM around you really need to give it a huge hit of countersteer

Ever read the Usenet newsgroup Rec.motorcycle? Its an article of faith on there that shafties cannot countersteer. There were some glorious flamewars over that one.

[Kwaka-Kid]

CK you dont like slow speed? my slowest is approx 15kmph on the lovers drive in hte domain. and fastest, dunno at a guess 100kmph? maybe not quite that fast? 80, really not too sure.

[jrandom]

shafties cannot countersteer

And on uk.rec.motorcycles you will be told with great solemnity that shafties cannot wheelie. Of course ukrm is the Font of All Knowledge so they must be right.

And it's bollocks that one *always* countersteers. I don't countersteer through the back gate at the end of the driveway when I park the FXR behind my house so nyaaahhhhhhh

And I bet that at higher speeds it would still be *possible* to drag a bike around a corner by hanging off while turning the wheel toward the corner.

Oooh, look, it's turning into a countersteering thread, I love those.

[Big Dog]

CK you dont like slow speed? my slowest is approx 15kmph on the lovers drive in hte domain. and fastest, dunno at a guess 100kmph? maybe not quite that fast? 80, really not too sure.

In books/mags offering instruction in the "art" they reccomend practicingat round abouts at 25-30 kmph to hone your skills before attempting it at higher speeds as even a small ripple in the road can send the unprepared into a full on slapper if your "throttle balance" (the area between acceleration and deceleration is not out side the boundaries of your available grip) is not right.

Note: you need to be accelerating to be stable that far over, otherwise you have none of your grip matrix availible if you need to change direction or speed.

[Big Dog]

I don't countersteer through the back gate at the end of the driveway when I park the FXR behind my house so nyaaahhhhhhh

Put down some paint just before said gate. Then review the line taken by your front wheel. If there is no wiggle there could be a spot for you on crusty demons world tour (unless you put your feet down).
As it is a physical imposibilty on rounded tyres to turn without "rolling off" the centre line. Even at low speed (read that paddling) you need to tip the bike into the corner. Otherwise the bike will not turn just tip.

If you just turn the wheel without tipping you will "roll off" the other way and so turn that way. At low speed if you just lean without steering input then turn the wheel the bike will just stand back up as lean potential off weight shift is very limited before you just "park" in untidy heap, and the counter steer generated will stand her back up.

I did not beleive this either until in push bike training class we actually did the paint test (15 and a lot fitter). If you could ride a push bike before you first straddled a motorbike you are probably countersteering without any knowledge of it and you will be unable to manage it consciously except at higher speeds than you were ever capable of on a push bike due to "muscle memory" taking over before you can manage a concious thought.

[jrandom]

Even at low speed (read that paddling) you need to tip the bike into the corner. Otherwise the bike will not turn just tip.

If you just turn the wheel without tipping you will "roll off" the other way and so turn that way.

Hmmmmph yes well. Hmmmmph.

One of these days I shall code up a physics model for myself and gain final enlightenment regarding the necessity of countersteering beyond my current finger-waggling-in-pub level of certainty. Until then I'll just defer to anyone more energetic or aggressive who disagrees.

[Urban Terrorist]

Ever read the Usenet newsgroup Rec.motorcycle? Its an article of faith on there that shafties cannot countersteer. There were some glorious flamewars over that one.

I thought that was only in the Northern hemisphere (due to the Corialis Effect) and if your bike isin't fitted with a countersteering adapter. Now to start a good dino vs. synthetic gun oil thread. Adny Lvies