Taking responsibility for one's own life

**Lou Girardin** · 1st February 2006, 09:50

Originally Posted by Hitcher

But failure to take suitable and appropriate precautions is the ball in play. Going boating with no flares, radio, cellphone, oars, etc is similar to motorcycling with no protective gear or playing rugby without a mouthguard. Currently ACC doesn't discriminate on the basis of whether or not people failed to take sensible precautions to mitigate the effects of shit happening. Maybe they should?

OK. I'll agree when the playing filed is leveled. Especially sports injuries, why should we pay for those?

**ManDownUnder** · 1st February 2006, 09:52

Originally Posted by MisterD

Didn't this used to be called PE lessons?

Not at my primary school. At high school yes - and that was 2 hours a week to teach us specific skills like rugby, swimming and running. Sure it was exercise and I believe that was one of the goals, but don't d it at primary school where the fundamentals of learning are being installed in our kids.

Not at the expense of Maths or writing or any of the other wonderful stuff they do.

And why burden the teachers with it? Hell - they have enough on their plates (especially when marking and after school activities are expected of them). From what I can see - the nett result will be school removing some of thge academic work fro the classroom, to the tune of 5 hours a day (1/7th of their total time in class... ). This means kids will need extra tuition to keep up to where they were, and the only place that can really happen is at home...

So in effect, parents aren't doing something about their kids getting fat, so the schools do, which (should) place extra responsibility on the parents to teach them school stuff.

Why not place the main responsibility for school stuff on the school, and the main responsibility for health and welfare on the home? Or is that too obvious (and the Nanny state would feel left out)?
MDU

**buellbabe** · 1st February 2006, 09:57

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

OK. I'll agree when the playing filed is leveled. Especially sports injuries, why should we pay for those?

Yeah but you could apply the same logic to any accident... shit happens why should joe public have to contribute their taxes...
People who come here from other countries are astounded by our welfare system, they can't believe how lucky we are.
Unfortunately it does get exploited!

**Hitcher** · 1st February 2006, 10:11

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

OK. I'll agree when the playing filed is leveled. Especially sports injuries, why should we pay for those?

A full and frank discussion on the merits or otherwise of a "no fault" accident and injury insurance programme could well be debated in another thread...

**Lou Girardin** · 1st February 2006, 10:12

Originally Posted by buellbabe

shit happens why should joe public have to contribute their taxes...

It's called society. It's supposed to be about the have's contributing to the have nots. And about spreading the burden of maintaining that society.
The alternative can be seen in Rio, for example.

**Ixion** · 1st February 2006, 10:14

Originally Posted by tracyprier

Well said Hitch... sound thinking (you're obviously not in government then)

I particularly agree with the bit about protective gear because you're right, in this country it is MY (our) taxes that pays for their rebuilding and THAT's why I also get pissed off seeing these 'tards roaring around half nekked.

If this was the 'states and it was the "you pay for it or miss out" system then fine... ride buck naked for all I care, they are the one who will be paying the bills but over here it just means more and more of what I earn goes towards patching up dickheads.

rant mode end.

So, extending this logic, when Squidly McSquid comes off his GZXRRR1000 and puts himself in hospital for 6 months because he was determined to get his knee down in every corner, HE should pay the hospital bills, not ME from my taxes . Yes? After all part of personal responsibility has to be RIDING SAFELY , so you DON'T CRASH. And yes, that may mean the unthinkable - slowing down.

And as far as personal responsibility goes, if we're talking wanting to make people wear saftey gear, then the biggest single piece of gear you can wear to improve your likelihood of not needing medical treatment, is a reflective vest. So that's got to be top of the list of "mandatory gear" . Right? Always amazes me that the folk who are the loudest on the magic gear bandwagon are the very ones who swear they'd NEVER wear such a thing.

No? You're not keen on either of those ideas ? But it's personal responsibility isn't it? Or is it just slagging off riders who aren't perceived to be "cool" ?

**Badcat** · 1st February 2006, 10:20

Originally Posted by Ixion

So, extending this logic, when Squidly McSquid comes off his GZXRRR1000 and puts himself in hospital for 6 months because he was determined to get his knee down in every corner, HE should pay the hospital bills, not ME from my taxes . Yes? After all part of personal responsibility has to be RIDING SAFELY , so you DON'T CRASH. And yes, that may mean the unthinkable - slowing down.

And as far as personal responsibility goes, if we're talking wanting to make people wear saftey gear, then the biggest single piece of gear you can wear to improve your likelihood of not needing medical treatment, is a reflective vest. So that's got to be top of the list of "mandatory gear" . Right? Always amazes me that the folk who are the loudest on the magic gear bandwagon are the very ones who swear they'd NEVER wear such a thing.

No? You're not keen on either of those ideas ? But it's personal responsibility isn't it? Or is it just slagging off riders who aren't perceived to be "cool" ?

for me - it wasn't about MAKING anyone do or wear ANYTHING.
it was about telling people who ride bikes without decent gear that i think they are stupid. I think they are stupid, and i have the right to say that - don't i? or are we being so PC that i can't say that i think they are stupid?

stupid,
stupid,
stupid,
stupid.

**tracyprier** · 1st February 2006, 10:25

Originally Posted by Ixion

So, extending this logic, when Squidly McSquid comes off his GZXRRR1000 and puts himself in hospital for 6 months because he was determined to get his knee down in every corner, HE should pay the hospital bills, not ME from my taxes . Yes? After all part of personal responsibility has to be RIDING SAFELY , so you DON'T CRASH. And yes, that may mean the unthinkable - slowing down.

And as far as personal responsibility goes, if we're talking wanting to make people wear saftey gear, then the biggest single piece of gear you can wear to improve your likelihood of not needing medical treatment, is a reflective vest. So that's got to be top of the list of "mandatory gear" . Right? Always amazes me that the folk who are the loudest on the magic gear bandwagon are the very ones who swear they'd NEVER wear such a thing.

No? You're not keen on either of those ideas ? But it's personal responsibility isn't it? Or is it just slagging off riders who aren't perceived to be "cool" ?

actually I always wear a reflective vest when communting, riding at night or in foul weather.

And I think there is a point at which you look at someones behaviour, be it hooning it up on the open road or riding around half naked... or going boating without flares, life vests etc and say... "they didn't take any kind of reasonable precautions so why the hell should the rest of us pay for their patch up / rescue.

Ok, people wearing full riding gear still sometimes die in accidents but at least they were making an effort.

**Ixion** · 1st February 2006, 10:41

Originally Posted by tracyprier

actually I always wear a reflective vest when communting, riding at night or in foul weather.

..

Yith. So do I . And jacket, gloves, boots. Cos I don't like being hurt. But I don't think that just because I do, everyone should be expected to. Maybe if they don't they're stupid. Or maybe I'm a Nana. I know a lot of people who would say that anyone who rides a motorcycle at all, no matter what they wear, is stupid, And lacking personal responsibility. I make my own call on where to cut off the risk. Others may make a different call.

**Winston001** · 1st February 2006, 11:06

Originally Posted by outlawtorn

Political correctness, people in this day and age are far too scared they might offend someone so everyone has to tip-toe around everyone else and their "feelings" so that no one gets hurt.

I fucking hate political correctness, I've said it before on this website and I'll say it again: "Political Correctness is the language of cowards"

I don't like it either but have come to accept that it isn't always wrong. Political correctness is aimed at avoiding offense and at changing attitudes. There is a fine line between calling a spade a spade and offending the person you are talking to.

I'm all for plain-speaking but if I refer to the present Labour government as wannabe lesbo social engineers (cos they are

) then the response is going to be outrage about calling Trevor Mallard etc lesbians. The allegation of a particular feminist social agenda of our government gets overlooked entirely.

Accordingly if you use objectionable words rather than polite words, the listener gets completely side-tracked with anger at the words you've used instead of hearing the message.

**Hitcher** · 1st February 2006, 12:23

A good example of this is the Anglican Church in New Zealand which invested a couple of squillion hours putting gender-neutral language in the Book of Common Prayer. And then they forgot "manifold sins and wickedness", as I constantly remind my mother...

**Grahameeboy** · 1st February 2006, 12:32

I have issues with ACC, classic eg is drunk guy gets in car, hits tree, seriously injured, gets red carpet treatment, 80% of his pay, quick assessments, help getting back to work etc compared to child born with disability, parents have to find support and fight for childs rights, waiting list for assessments is 10 times longer, even on 'Elite List' and fighting for equipment......just to add to the stress of having a disabled child.
Just a quick rant

**Winston001** · 1st February 2006, 13:01

Originally Posted by Grahameeboy

I have issues with ACC, classic eg is drunk guy gets in car, hits tree, seriously injured, gets red carpet treatment, 80% of his pay, quick assessments, help getting back to work etc compared to child born with disability, parents have to find support and fight for childs rights, waiting list for assessments is 10 times longer, even on 'Elite List' and fighting for equipment......just to add to the stress of having a disabled child.
Just a quick rant

My sympathies Graham, that is quite a load to bear. It isn't any help but when ACC was originally introduced, it was intended to be extended to sickness as well after 2-3 years. Never happened in part because of the 1973 oil shock to the economy.

But there certainly is an irrational unfairness between illness and accident.

**Lou Girardin** · 1st February 2006, 15:21

Originally Posted by Ixion

And as far as personal responsibility goes, if we're talking wanting to make people wear saftey gear, then the biggest single piece of gear you can wear to improve your likelihood of not needing medical treatment,?

Would be gaitors, to prevent trench foot.