Another nasty one

[Lou Girardin]

Well Katwyn, if you vote Act next time you'll have the low wage, expolitative labour market that will drive NZ into the top of the OECD and give us lots of grateful employees.
Funny though, it didn't work for the Nats last time. Remember Ruthenasia?
Lou

[James Deuce]

i'm also talking about low skill employment here by the way. Im not talking skilled employment in what I wrote about above.

I started out as a drainlayer's apprentice, then went through factories and warehouses. I still resent the implication that cheap labour imported from overseas is preferable to employing an NZ native. Some of the kiwis I worked with in those jobs were absolutely amazing in their measured output, and it was everything I could do to try and keep up. This was breaking diecast objects from sprue by the way, and sorting them into boxes. I'm only "skilled" because I had some lucky breaks from employers who gave a shit, but since the mid-90s I have been expected to do more, and more, and more as employers "downsize".

Good argument, but when you are getting paid to do a job, you do it- isn't that fair? ? it works both ways. You do the job you are PAID to do. How you live your life or veiw the means of obtaining that income is not my business

Not when it means that 10-15 hours of overtime a week goes unnoticed and without recompense. Not when I don't see my children for days on end because I doing 2.5 jobs and trying to improve my practitioner qualifications at my own expense, and in my own time. I managed to get a job 9 months ago that pays on-call allowance and pays overtime, with prior approval. Its revolutionised my life, as my "real" income has stayed the same for 9 years, which in reality is a 2-6% per annum decrease in spending power. The overtime has meant that I could buy a "new" (2nd hand) bike, and start planning some improvements to the house.

If our economy is raging and "everyone is benefitting" why hasn't my income at least maintained pace with the increase in the cost of living? Because my previous 3 employers all claimed poverty due to an economic downturn. Is it any wonder your average NZer feels less than motivated? All the "free" stuff you were promised as a kid has evaporated. I won't get to "retire" and I will probably end up paying for my kids University education. I can only hope that they will be happy to look after me in my dotage.

I've had had enough of the poor little rich person bleating I've heard from employers of late. In the meantime I will continue to maintain my personal standards of professionalism, because I give a damn. Being a lazy shit means that someone further along the chain is put out, and I do not like making anyone else's life harder.

[750Y]

not good news...with this story fresh in my mind i paid special attention to vehicles on the road side on my ride this morning. If we can try & learn something from these horror stories we might all stay a little bit safer. the message i am getting from this one is keep your speed down in town & watch the cars on the roadside. stay awake people and stay alive.

[jrandom]

I have to say this cos I get heated under the collar with racism (i'm 100% Kiwi) apart from boosting our economy with new money,Asians and indians
are the most productive employees we have ever had (in our personal business)....and i'm sorry, but they put a lot of "other NZ" people to shame when it comes to doing a bloody good hard days work!

Of course they're productive. Of course they work hard. Nobody ever accused immigrants of being lazy. I believe they *have* been accused of being statistically more likely to turn out as bad and/or dangerous drivers, though. Of course I won't comment on that, far too sensitive an issue.

I never hear them whine or complain or threaten the employment act, discuss terrible work conditions ("awe gee its 1 degree hotter to work in, this is an unacceptable working environment- please spend thousands of dollars on an air con system just for me) and they never complain about pay rates!

Look, Katwyn, many of them probably don't even know that there *is* an 'employment act', but I'm sure they're very aware that if they screw up and piss off their boss they could land in the gutter with no very good way of keeping themselves and their families alive.

I work in an R&D job at a company that also employs a huge raft of (predominantly Asian) immigrants in factory line jobs. Yes, I believe our cultural background (mine as well as the factory guys and girls) has contributed to our suitability for our jobs. I'm not the best person to sit in a single spot all day doing the same thing over and over, no I'm not.

But every month I see Kiwi engineers slaughtering Americans and Europeans at their own game on a tenth of the budget and I'm damn proud of the culture we seem to have built here, even if some of its members aren't too good at being organic robot assembly arms.

Get over it, Katwyn, you chose to run a business and employ people. That's *your* job. And if the jobs you need to fill suit the temperaments of immigrants with no financial or social security and a desperate need to survive, then, well...

[KATWYN]

Well Katwyn, if you vote Act next time you'll have the low wage, expolitative labour market that will drive NZ into the top of the OECD and give us lots of grateful employees.
Funny though, it didn't work for the Nats last time. Remember Ruthenasia?
Lou

Lou, don't talk to me about labour exploitation. We turned down a business
offer to build a plant & produce product in India because my/our conscience would not allow it (any progress toward it was stopped at the birth of the idea itself,we felt so strongly about it- we were told "oh don't worry about labour it is cheap, very,very cheap" gross). We pay 40% above the minimum adult wage rate for unskilled labour too. Exploiting people for financial gain is absolutely disgusting

[KATWYN]

i'm also talking about low skill employment here by the way. Im not talking skilled employment in what I wrote about above.

I started out as a drainlayer's apprentice, then went through factories and warehouses. I still resent the implication that cheap labour imported from overseas is preferable to employing an NZ native. Some of the kiwis I worked with in those jobs were absolutely amazing in their measured output, and it was everything I could do to try and keep up. This was breaking diecast objects from sprue by the way, and sorting them into boxes. I'm only "skilled" because I had some lucky breaks from employers who gave a shit, but since the mid-90s I have been expected to do more, and more, and more as employers "downsize".

Good argument, but when you are getting paid to do a job, you do it- isn't that fair? ? it works both ways. You do the job you are PAID to do. How you live your life or veiw the means of obtaining that income is not my business

Not when it means that 10-15 hours of overtime a week goes unnoticed and without recompense. Not when I don't see my children for days on end because I doing 2.5 jobs and trying to improve my practitioner qualifications at my own expense, and in my own time. I managed to get a job 9 months ago that pays on-call allowance and pays overtime, with prior approval. Its revolutionised my life, as my "real" income has stayed the same for 9 years, which in reality is a 2-6% per annum decrease in spending power. The overtime has meant that I could buy a "new" (2nd hand) bike, and start planning some improvements to the house.

If our economy is raging and "everyone is benefitting" why hasn't my income at least maintained pace with the increase in the cost of living? Because my previous 3 employers all claimed poverty due to an economic downturn. Is it any wonder your average NZer feels less than motivated? All the "free" stuff you were promised as a kid has evaporated. I won't get to "retire" and I will probably end up paying for my kids University education. I can only hope that they will be happy to look after me in my dotage.

I've had had enough of the poor little rich person bleating I've heard from employers of late. In the meantime I will continue to maintain my personal standards of professionalism, because I give a damn. Being a lazy shit means that someone further along the chain is put out, and I do not like making anyone else's life harder.

Thank you, for sharing your story Jim. I believe that employers do have a moral obligation to look after their employees and if they don't I don't know how they sleep at night. A good employer will value what you do, as without you they would have no business. There are too many that don't acknowledge this. Doing 10-15 hours over time without being noticed is disheartening to hear about ...especially the fact you are sacrificing time with your children

[KATWYN]

Get over it, Katwyn, you chose to run a business and employ people. That's *your* job. And if the jobs you need to fill suit the temperaments of immigrants with no financial or social security and a desperate need to survive, then, well...

Read my above posts (Lou's one). Don't you dare accuse me of that.

[KATWYN]

Look, Katwyn, many of them probably don't even know that there *is* an 'employment act',


Yea I was waiting for that comment. Random,any Human resource division /employer that knows what they are doing, know that they are under a legal obligation to inform any new or existing staff of their rights under the current employment relations act, and the steps they are to take if there is a personal grievance

[dangerous]

WAY too many 'do gooders' in this country

[jrandom]

Read my above posts (Lou's one). Don't you dare accuse me of that.

Accuse you of what, exactly? My last paragraph was (intentionally) a little emotive, but I'm not sure how you parsed it as an accusation of anything. It's a fact of life that there will always be jobs for people who are pressed for money and lacking in options, and there will always be people to fill those jobs. Does it make you feel bad to think that you might be providing some of those jobs to the market? You shouldn't.

We're all in the same environment, we just see things from different standpoints because of our positions. I don't think *anybody* has an 'easy' time of it, employed or employers.

And you need to be a little less touchy, Ms Captain of Industry

[KATWYN]

Accuse you of what, exactly? My last paragraph was (intentionally) a little emotive, but I'm not sure how you parsed it as an accusation of anything. It's a fact of life that there will always be jobs for people who are pressed for money and lacking in options, and there will always be people to fill those jobs. Does it make you feel bad to think that you might be providing some of those jobs to the market? You shouldn't.

We're all in the same environment, we just see things from different standpoints because of our positions. I don't think *anybody* has an 'easy' time of it, employed or employers.

And you need to be a little less touchy, Ms Captain of Industry

lol, true true. aye aye I can be that too (touchy) there laddy, Master Random of ethics

[Marmoot]

The bigots will never realise they are bigots anyway since they ARE bigots.

As for stereotyping, I don't call "fucking kiwi" everytime I see a news of child murderer, or "fucking Islander" everytime I see a news of bank robber.

And as for roadkills go, whatever happened to that Remuera Kiwi Businessman that killed a teenager and got off with a fine of $700?
You tell me that!

[spudchucka]

Isn't it amazing how these threads develop. This went from some poor bikers getting smacked to Asian drivers to worker exploitation and workers rights, brilliant. The internet is alive and evolving rapidly.

As far as not getting wasted by car drivers goes, I've always treated other road users as pshycopaths out to kill me. I don't trust anyone on the road and never assume to know what they are going to do. It's a simple theory but its kept me in tact for a long time.

[Marmoot]

And remember to as much as possible stay in right wheel path of the car in your lane.

[dangerous]

And remember to as much as possible stay in right wheel path of the car in your lane.

IMHO crap............well it depends on the situation aye, If I'm in town 'yes' depending, and on the open Rd I sit in the center of my lane, if there 'is' on comming cars as if they wonder over the line (as some people do) I have more room to get out of the way. And if there is 'no' on comming cars then I will sit on the right side of my lane so as to give me more room if a 'something' comes out from the left of me.

Dosent the road code say to stay to the LEFT ???