Shocking allegations!!

**JMemonic** · 14th February 2006, 10:54

Originally Posted by chickenfunkstar

I'm not suggesting that it'd be nice country to live in but they were stable.

There was no internal conflict or political instability and they wern't a threat to any other country at the time of the invasion.

Stable in what way they were one step short of civil war (what ever is civil about war I dont know) there was no democracy, oppression of simple libertys, there were three main factions, only one of which held power. Over the years there were repeted mass murders that can only be called genocide. Any dissenting voice was imprisioned and tortured.

Hell if these kids had rioted under the regime that was in power forget a beating and think Tiananmen Square but I doubt we would have head about it at all, if the current trial and the charges laid are not enough for you look at all the mass graves they are finding.

The only real difference is the west never took an interest, hell the US proped up Sadam's regime for years how do you think that the US knew about those WMD's that Iraq had, oh I know they have not found them but they had them cause the US supplied the offending items during the Iran-Iraq war, Sadam used some of them to suppress part of the local population and the west never batted an eyelid.

We aint perfect either look at what this country did with East Timor.

**nudemetalz** · 14th February 2006, 11:01

Originally Posted by DirtMad

No sympathy at all.
If those little shits wanted to bring a rock to a gun fight

then they should have been prepared for the smack down.

I bet if the situation was reversed those ragheads would`ve killed the troops...
-ex military (can ya tell?

)

I concur !!!

-also ex-military (although my avatar may have given that away)

**justsomeguy** · 14th February 2006, 11:15

Spoke to an officer in the Indian Army who had been on the front line a few times.

The sweetest, cutest little baby girl could be nothing more than a terrorist scout.

There are no rules in those situations.

Soldiers have to be in an unimaginably (for us civilians) extremely alert frame of mind for prolonged periods. They have to be lucky all the time. The terrorists only have to be lucky once.

**Deano** · 14th February 2006, 11:24

Originally Posted by Weasel

Anyone here served in Iraq? no... me neither... so I don't think I'll pass judgement.

Also... when did you fools start to trust the media?

I'm not going to pass judgement but tell me how the fuck the media could have got it wrong this time - it was filmed and commentated by a soldier. Do you not believe your eyes and ears ?

**Grahameeboy** · 14th February 2006, 11:27

Originally Posted by Deano

I'm not going to pass judgement but tell me how the fuck the media could have got it wrong this time - it was filmed and commentated by a soldier. Do you not believe your eyes and ears ?

and so was the moon landing??

**scumdog** · 14th February 2006, 11:29

Originally Posted by Deano

I'm not going to pass judgement but tell me how the fuck the media could have got it wrong this time - it was filmed and commentated by a soldier. Do you not believe your eyes and ears ?

Meh, probably an out-take from Blackhawk Down or sommat like that.
Who knows where the film REALLY came from and who made it.

(Some of those squaddies looked a tad dark and I'm sure one had a camel-whip tucked into his belt and....)

**chickenfunkstar** · 14th February 2006, 11:36

Originally Posted by JMemonic

Stable in what way they were one step short of civil war (what ever is civil about war I dont know) there was no democracy, oppression of simple libertys, there were three main factions, only one of which held power. Over the years there were repeted mass murders that can only be called genocide. Any dissenting voice was imprisioned and tortured.

Hell if these kids had rioted under the regime that was in power forget a beating and think Tiananmen Square but I doubt we would have head about it at all, if the current trial and the charges laid are not enough for you look at all the mass graves they are finding.

The only real difference is the west never took an interest, hell the US proped up Sadam's regime for years how do you think that the US knew about those WMD's that Iraq had, oh I know they have not found them but they had them cause the US supplied the offending items during the Iran-Iraq war, Sadam used some of them to suppress part of the local population and the west never batted an eyelid.

We aint perfect either look at what this country did with East Timor.

As far as I was aware Saddam had a good grip on power, I didn't see him being overthrown anytime soon.

I don't doubt that he was a nasty character but i'm not sure that justifies and invasion. Before 2003 I would have taken the 'let them sort it out for themselves' view point. I don't think its appropriate to leave the job now, when the mission hasn't really been accomplished.

I don't think that there's many people left who still argue that Saddam still had WMD's in 2003.

**Karma** · 14th February 2006, 11:42

Originally Posted by Deano

I'm not going to pass judgement but tell me how the fuck the media could have got it wrong this time - it was filmed and commentated by a soldier. Do you not believe your eyes and ears ?

What about the photos they had of those american soldiers in the Iraqi prison... turns out they were told to do it by those higher up the chain... and the time they tried to say British solders were doing it at the same time, but the photos were doctored.

Dude... if you can watch Narnia and Star Wars and all that shit they can do on computers these days then editing a bit of film to show something it's not isn't really that hard.

I believe my eyes and ears, but only when I'm on site to judge. If I havn't seen it myself, then how do I know it's true?

**Grahameeboy** · 14th February 2006, 11:42

Originally Posted by Dynamytus50

The problem is that in New Zealand we are extremely PC. We believe that members of the military and police must behave in a robotic on/off switch mentality.

For example, say a cop or even a member of the public was chasing a rapist or someone who had bashed their kids or smacked a girl over in the street for her bag...once caught you must treat them with respect and tolerance that they will never show you....this is the way things are over here.

Now imagine your in the British Army or Royal Marines. You signed up to 1. protect your country etc etc...you get shipped to Iraq.

A lot of the guys you went over with start getting cut down from sneaky hit and run tactics...mates are loosing limbs, their lives and their minds.

Every day could be your last.

2. Then some scroates start throwing rocks at your base......what would you do?We cannot judge them as we werent there, we dont know what its like 3. but undoubtably they will get tracked down.

1. Righto
2. Throw the rocks back.......
3. Could be difficult so far back?

**pritch** · 14th February 2006, 11:48

I was reading in a (Spectator?) article recently where there are Brit lawyers queuing to fly to Iraq and represent Iraqi locals in court cases against the military.

The squaddies should kow what to do about that. After first checking that nobody has a camera/cell phone of course...

**HenryDorsetCase** · 14th February 2006, 11:48

Originally Posted by scumdog

But they might learn something ( like a kick in the bollocks really hurts) and stop rioting and get back to school where they belong.
No sympathy - every time a riot of any kind occurs the score is always more Police/Military get hurt than rioters - even if the ratio is 10 rioters to 1 of the other.
Biased, rednecked and uncaring? hmm I suppose I am.
Gee, and I feel bad about it too.
At least the young punks will have a REAL reason to hate the white man (and fear him too).

nonsense. i hope that both sides will learn their lesson from this incident. they need to sit down, with each other and dialogue, then a powhiri and a ceremonial payment of some sort and both sides will reach a new understanding and will proceed forward with a shared vision to a new and brighter future.

Yeah right.

**SARGE** · 14th February 2006, 11:51

Originally Posted by chickenfunkstar

I don't think that there's many people left who still argue that Saddam still had WMD's in 2003.

nah.. he used them all on the Kurds...

look folks.. Saddam has proven many times that he was and is a madman.. he has gassed his own people on a few occations.. if he was given the opportunity to gain WMD's ... he damn sure woulda used them.. no question.

**SARGE** · 14th February 2006, 11:52

Originally Posted by Grahameeboy

2. Throw the rocks back.......

just pull the pin first....

**chickenfunkstar** · 14th February 2006, 11:54

Originally Posted by Dynamytus50

The problem is that in New Zealand we are extremely PC. We believe that members of the military and police must behave in a robotic on/off switch mentality.

Now imagine your in the British Army or Royal Marines. You signed up to protect your country or whatever etc etc...you get shipped to Iraq.
For example, say a cop or even a member of the public was chasing a rapist or someone who had bashed their kids or smacked a girl over in the street for her bag...once caught you must treat them with respect and tolerance that they will never show you....otherwise YOU will be charged.
A lot of the guys you went over with start getting cut down from sneaky hit and run tactics...mates are loosing limbs, their lives and their minds.

Every day could be your last.

Then some scroates start throwing rocks at your base......what would you do? They needed a hiding, they got a hiding.

If it had been westerners throwing rocks they would of responded in a hail of bullets.

We cannot judge them as we werent there, we dont know what its like.

I know what you're saying but I think that retaliating to relativly insignificant stuff like throwing rocks will lead to more radical forms of resistance. I don't think that boys throwing stones are in the same category as hard line insurgants who are 100% fixed in their attitudes and ways. I think that the actions of the troops could well have an influence on how they themselves are treated. (not in all cases but at least in some)

If westerners threw stones they probably would have responded with a hail of bullets. However westerners are in their country not the other way around.