Another Nasty One: Follow-up

[XRNR]

how do the rest of you feel about a 15 year old chicky-babe driving a Valiant load of totally drunk slack-jawed mouth-breathers around town at 4 a.m.?
Probably don't get that in Jaffa-land but down hear an old Falcon etc with 8 to 11 young ones in it is the norm on a Saturday night.

I don't have a problem with it (15yrs old & a full license is fine by me). It was the norm having a 15-16yr old driving around a clapped out (Falcon Cortina Anglia Escort Chev HQ... with Mags!) after parties when I grew up in jaffa land (don't see those kind of cars now, when I do, they turn my head). Maybe that 15yr old driver now is sober. Which would be the biggest improvement.

[XRNR]

...I've always thought riders are wiser than normal cagers. Clearly I was wrong.

Elite...
People are still people, no matter what they do (I don't agree that bikers are elite just because they ride bikes).
Even Policeman, (some of whom) think they are above the flock (of sheep) they serve are still members of it.

[Motu]

One of my brother in laws has amassed so many fines he now has an ''arrangment'' with the courts - he pays them $20 a week (our money cos he's on the dole) and does just what he bloody well likes...no license,no WoF or rego,parks anywhere,it all just goes on the bill.

BUT ...now in his mid 40s he has never killed anyone or even had a major prang,beats his cars up,but never a biggy.As Lou says,he was born into this system and knows how it works.Sure he pisses me off with his attitude - but I don't fear for my kids because he's out there.

[Marmoot]

fuck.....I give up.
It's starting to feel like talking to a wall.
Of course....what do I know. It's not even my home, is it?
What's next? Double demerit points for yellow drivers?

[Coldkiwi]

anyone recklessly using a motor vehicle that causes grevious injury or death should be given hell. Shouldn't matter who where when or what (I suspect that our justice system would agree if you read in to it).... but thats doesn't seem to be reflected in whats going on (people getting off lightly, not being arrested when charged twice previously for the same offence). for instance, the guy who killed the biker on symonds st was charged that MORNING with not having a licence.. what the heck was going on that he could get behind the wheel again?

do the cops have the power to arrest people driving without licences? if not, they should... if so, WHY THE HECK DIDN'T THEY!?

[KATWYN]

fuck.....I give up.
It's starting to feel like talking to a wall.
Of course....what do I know. It's not even my home, is it?
What's next? Double demerit points for yellow drivers?

Marmoot, why are you thinking like the "alien resident" and that
you are targeted?

Is it really like that for you? cos thats a bit rough if thats how
you feel

[Marmoot]

because, katwyn, I'm just sick and tired of paying my taxes and working my ass off but when something bad happened all the fingers will point down to me even when it was not me that was the subject.
Try this: whenever some Asian bastard crash into a little girl, my boss would laugh and say "you asians can't drive". The hell I can, can't I? Well, it does not matter by the looks of it.
And when some stupid overstayer crash at the intersection, people say "the hell is this country allowing overstayer? Asians go home!". Well, aren't there other overstayers in this country except Asians?
And when those stupid students come here with millions of dollars of their parents money, some people say "close up the immigration". We the ones that came here to study and work were treated as though criminals and also told to go home.
And when there is a bad crash involving Asians, why does it always come up on first page and provoke debate all over the news? Why not the other crashes? Look at those 4 teenages who died in a crash, they are all forgotten because they're not Asians. Or that Remuera businessman (still my favourite). Or that lady who plowed an armyman. Or that other hundreds of other kiwis everyday, unlicensed, talking to cell phones, and even reading map and doing makeups!
Tell me, who is more kiwi? That chinese that open a takeaway and pay his taxes, or that mate who is healthy but on the dole?

Now, you sit in my chair and imagine if it were you. Wouldn't you be p1$$ed being labeled with someone else's measurement?

I thought NZ is a democratic country and we are not supposed to judge people until proven guilty? Or, what about the equality? Where is the one-law-for-all? Or is it ok to treat people differently based on how they look?
I did not choose to be born Asian, nor did I wish to be born white. But should I be judged on that? Should I be judged on what I do not have control of? Who do I blame then? My parents?

Or what about African? Do they really have a tendency to be involved in scam more than you white people? Or, please admit, how many of yous feel scared every time you see a group of Arabs?

I'm sure Im not the only one. Asians are just but 1 label amongst many that people tend to see as incompetent.

But I tell you what, mate, even dogs don't attack other dogs just because it has different colour. Or are we humans lower than dogs?

I'm just tired of that. I'm just frustrated looking at this society becoming as such when it wasn't like that a few years back. Now when can I be treated as equal? Not even when I'm paying your dole, I suppose?

[KATWYN]

I will never ever be able to say "yes I know how you feel" because I have never experienced it personally and I would be superficial to say I did, I can only try and feel and imagine how it would be. But your words are powerful and I hope anyone reading your thread will really think,ponder and feel the content of it- and now think twice (if they are that way inclined) about how damaging a thoughtless comment can be to someones spirit.

I hope one day you will feel that NZ, IS YOUR home.

[wkid_one]

Where is the one-law-for-all?

This would be a luxury.

This is a bug bear of mine also.

The difficulty I think you face here is the average european second gen+ Kiwi feels a foreigner in their own country - so it is more an outlet.

You have European Kiwi's seeing fights over fishing rights, foreshore, land dispute, education, tax dollars, etc between Europeans and Maori - they don't like the idea of even more 'non-europeans' coming here to take ever more of their supposed slice of the pie. The average Kiwi is not particularly well educated - so tends to believe what they see in the media as an accurate representation.

Your statement about the Asian guy who hit the girl - and how it hit the front page is a bit moot tho - in NZ, ANY accident involving death with circumstances like that would have been front page news - regardless of the race of the offender.

For many Kiwi's it also comes down to the integration of the foreigners in to NZ. You see many people who come to NZ who don't actually try to integrate themselves in to NZ. They know little or no english, they don't socialise outside of their own race, they don't don't adopt/adapt or compromise any of their own behaviours - yet expected to be treated as normal - this is an oxymoron. Often - they make no adaptations to living in a different country - then wonder why they are treated differently?

You statement makes it clear you believe the fault lies entirely in the Kiwi's lap?? I don't agree. These people are making a conscious decision to come to a country different from their own - culturally, language, religion etc.....there needs to be some effort put in on their part also.

Unfortunately - being a Kiwi - doesn't mean to me you live here and pay taxes as per your post. It means actually adopting the cultural nuances that make a Kiwi (not at the expense of their own religious beliefs of course).

I would expect - if I went to a foreign country, hung out with only Kiwi's, maintained my Kiwi way of life etc - I would be forever considered a foreigner in that country. You can't be expected to be given everything - if you don't give some yourself in return

Unfortunately Marmoot - stereotypes make the world go round - and they aren't going away. Think about how many generalisations you would make in a day - these are just stereotypes based on the commonest behaviour experienced from the group/item/situation. The fault doesn't lie exclusively in one parties responsibility. Yes Kiwi's need to be more tolerant of the multi-cultural society that NZ is becoming - however, foreigners also need to be cognisant of the fact - this is a different country than their own and in order to be accepted there needs to be compromise.

I think your statement about Students studying in NZ is a bit one eyed also. This neglects other underlying issues - like NZ Schools accepting an OS student over a Kiwi Student because it means more money to the school - thereby depriving a Kiwi Student of a place at that school. Also - this OS student has a high likelihood of leaving the country at the end of said education and taking with them the schools learnt - further depriving NZ of a growing knowledge base. These are arguments that would be prevelant REGARDLESS of the race of the students coming to NZ. It just so happens they are Asian.

This exact argument occurs in Germany - where the Turks come over and work for less than the Germans - depriving many of them of the lower blue collar jobs. Again - the race is secondary to the action and effect.

I agree that NZ has a race issue - but it will take actions on both sides of the fence to fix it. To sit and whinge about stereotypes is a ridiculous waste of time and bandwidth.......Quite frankly the Government needs to grow some balls and deal with the country's largest race issue first and foremost and get rid of the bloody Waitangi Tribunal. Asian stereotypes are a distant second to the other race issues the country faces.

[Motu]

Sounds like you take things a bit personaly mate - that's part of being a Kiwi...your mates tell you what a fucking idiot you are,they rub it in real deep - you come up shining,or you get a chip on your shoulder.

Ok,so I am one of the privilaged white people in this country - like you I didn't ask for that,but I'm sure my ancestors didn't ask to be put in the situation that made them want to go to the other side of the world either.I would need to go and live in another country foreign to me to experiance being looked down on....but I like it here.I think Mikes posts have expressed what I think of this situation perfectly,like him I have no predudice,but I have two eyes,I can see for myself what is going on.

The basic fact is there are people driving on our roads who shouldn't be - who they are or what country they are from is irrelivent,we need to stop them hurting and killing others.

[merv]

Sounds like you take things a bit personaly mate - that's part of being a Kiwi...your mates tell you what a fucking idiot you are,they rub it in real deep - you come up shining,or you get a chip on your shoulder.

Ok,so I am one of the privilaged white people in this country - like you I didn't ask for that,but I'm sure my ancestors didn't ask to be put in the situation that made them want to go to the other side of the world either.I would need to go and live in another country foreign to me to experiance being looked down on....but I like it here.I think Mikes posts have expressed what I think of this situation perfectly,like him I have no predudice,but I have two eyes,I can see for myself what is going on.

The basic fact is there are people driving on our roads who shouldn't be - who they are or what country they are from is irrelivent,we need to stop them hurting and killing others.

Yep and when a TV studio audience could only score 40% on that recent test we are in trouble. No worries for the asian lady though she scored well.

Down here in the Welly area I see dickheads on the road often, few are asians. Perhaps you come down here Marmoot we are not so prejudiced.

[MikeL]

fuck.....I give up.
It's starting to feel like talking to a wall.
Of course....what do I know. It's not even my home, is it?
What's next? Double demerit points for yellow drivers?

Marmoot
When I read this post of yours this afternoon I started writing a reply that expressed a similar frustration and also involved a comparison with a brick wall. I decided not to send it, because I thought it would just make things worse. I've just read your long post this evening and I now understand a lot more clearly where you are coming from. Your pain is very palpable. All I can do is repeat what wkid-one and Motu have said about stereotypes and taking things personally. I know it's hard when you are on the receiving end of cruel and thoughtless remarks but there are really only two ways to deal with them:
First, a calm, dignified and reasonable explanation of why you find the comments offensive. Be prepared to debate the facts, but make sure you and they stick to the facts. Challenge their unfounded assertions, ask for evidence. If they have had personal experiences that have contributed to their prejudice, don't rubbish them but gently point out that it's not necessarily a sound basis statistically for making a generalisation. On the other hand you need to be open to their arguments and not feel obliged to defend the honour and reputation of your whole ethnic group by denying the existence of particular problems. Be sensitive to the real concerns many Kiwis have about losing control of their own country and culture.
Secondly, show by your own example that the stereotype is misleading. Prove that you are an individual. Surprise them.
It may be a slow process, and some people will cling stubbornly to their prejudices despite all your efforts, but all you can do is live your life the best way you can, with dignity and self-respect and integrity, and try to get a bit of it rubbing off on the people you encounter. You might be surprised at how effective that is.

[scumdog]

fuck.....I give up.
It's starting to feel like talking to a wall.
Of course....what do I know. It's not even my home, is it?
What's next? Double demerit points for yellow drivers?

Marmoot, down here the Asian drivers are in three groups, one is the Asians that have grown up in N.Z., they never feature in driving incidents, the second is that cliched group the O.S. student and I KNOW how haphazard the driving skills of some are! the last lot are featured in a lot of driving complaints and inexplicable crashes and the are the tourists who arrive in N.Z. and are turned loose with a camper van or more commonly, a rental car, I feek they are victims of sort as they get the keys handed to them and have no idea of N.Z. road rules or how to deal with the various roads/conditions etc - some of them have only driven on city streets and motorways with multi lanes and median barriers.
Some European drivers fit the last group too but hey, visually they don't stand out the same and consequently you don't hear the comment "bloody European drivers"

[Marmoot]

Perhaps you come down here Marmoot we are not so prejudiced.

Fortunately, merv, I found that to be quite true.
Well, maybe it was just an Auckland black clouds I see hanging above me heads, coz even Hamilton I find it quite friendly.

Ok, I admit I might have been a bit one-eyed.
Maybe I'm just being a bit too cynical from all the treatments I get quite often. I had teenagers in car tried to hit me, yelled at to go back to my country (by a parking warden, imagine that??), thrown stuff at in workplace by guests, and being threatened as a 'yellow piece of s**t'.
I'm just tired of being treated with suspicion and contempt for what I am not. I too hate those "asians" that you are familiar about, especially since by them I am measured as.

I mean, I speak your language, I understand the law, I learn your cultures and I respect your way of living (with the only sin I have would probably be going fast in the twisties). If that still doesn't make me belong in NZ, then what?

In the end, I agree some (by proportion, and a lot by number) Asians can be quite a pain. But, please also acknowledge that they are not all. By branding them all together, you will not make the bad comes better, but you might discourage the good to become indifferent. And I'm talking for the other ethnics too, whether that be Arabs or Africans or Indians.
C'mon guys...1 less redneck means a yet better world to live in.

And, MikeL, you have a good point there. I'll try and start my pilgrimage then.

Cheers

[Marmoot]

Some European drivers fit the last group too but hey, visually they don't stand out the same and consequently you don't hear the comment "bloody European drivers"

...and yeah, this is exactly where I started